Prop Fouled, Engine Won't Start?

[Jungleboat]

Not sure if this is in the right section but I'll try...

Just what is it about a fouled prop that prevents the engine from re-starting, makes something 'very hot' and which can be cured by hotwiring something on the engine with a pair of pliers?

I have a general understanding of how engines work but none of that makes any sense to me. If it happens again I can't be sure I'll be 15 yards away from my local boat ramp, so I need to know:



Launched my 'new' boat the other day, with it's Evinrude 200 V6. To me this pretty old engine is entirely new. It's been fully reconditioned but it's a stranger to me.

Some dribbling moron had placed a fishing net directly across the ramp exit area, meaning that while reversing away from the ramp the engine stalled out.

I didn't realize at first it was a fouled prop and just put it back into neutral and tried to re-start. However all I got was a bit of a clicking sound.

Flat battery right? So I opened up the seat to switch to the other battery when I realised the guy fitting the engine had left the switch on 'Both'... Ouch.

Well happily I'd travelled such a short distance after I'd cut the net off my father in law was able to wade in, catch a thrown rope and pull the boat back. Now this is the bit that confuses me:

We called the local boat mechanic that fitted this engine, telling him both batteries were flat. He turns up, tries starting the engine, removes the engine cover and then grabs my fishing pliers and does something, something that causes the engine to roar into life.

So the batteries were NOT flat.

He said someone about "panas" which means hot.

He couldn't mean the engine itself because that had been running for no more than about 1 minute if that, just long enough to tick over steadily and then reverse less than 20 yards. Yes, the lower end was in the water at all times.

I tried getting my father in law to explain what exactly the problem had been and what exactly the guy did to overcome the problem but the language barrier was too high and my father in law knows absolutely nothing about engines.

My impression is that the mechanic used the pliers to short-circuit something electrical, because he started the engine *without* me turning the key.

So I'm hoping at least one of you experienced boaters out there can explain this to me?

I'm assuming, and I may be an *** for doing so, that the OMC remote unit on this boat is the same as my old one, in that you cannot start the engine if in gear. That it tried, with a loud click, means the boat WAS in neutral, right? The mechanic couldn't start it either, despite wiggling the gear selector, until he removed the engine cover.

I'm thinking in terms of a car or motorbike - if you stall you just put the thing in neutral and start the engine again. I can't see how a fouled prop prevents that? I COULD understand if the engine re-started and kept stopping each time I put it in gear; that would make sense - but she wouldn't start at all, in neutral?



Cheers,


JB

 

[oldcatamount]

Re: Prop Fouled, Engine Won't Start?

Sounds like either: corroded battery connections or, a bad starter selenoid to me. That "click" you heard was the selenoid trying to engage the starter. Check the "hot" connection from the batteries at the starter and then check the ground at the motor. Both of these need to be shiny clean. If the connections are good and the batteries are fully charged, then I'd suggest a new starter selenoid. I'm not sure if a selenoid can be repaired or not but, a new one won't be terribly expensive.

 

[Jungleboat]

Re: Prop Fouled, Engine Won't Start?

Hi Old Cat,

Both batteries are new, one a deep cycle marine, the main cranking one is a heavy-duty car battery. That's why I was surprised, if not shocked, at the thought of them both being flat. The mechanic didn't lift the seat cover where the batteries are, so I'm 100% sure it wasn't a battery problem, even though that's what I thought it was at the time - unless the connection from the battery at the starter's end.

The solenoid ground does sound more promising though... What is it supposed to be connected to, just the engine block itself, which I presume is ground?

Really I should have been more persistent about getting a clear answer but I did ask about 6 times and it just seemed the more I asked the more confused they got and the engine cover was already back on, with the engine running.

So you think perhaps the magical thing he did with my fishing pliers was use them to connect the solenoid to the earth or block?

I still can't understand how a fouled prop could cause the problem, unless it somehow jolted something that was already very loose..?


Mmm.



JB

 

[oldcatamount]

Re: Prop Fouled, Engine Won't Start?

Chances are good that the fouled prop situation didn't cause the problem, it just showed you the problem. The ground wire goes to any "large" bolt on the motor block. Just be sure it's as shiny clean as you can make it when you tighten it on, and squeeze it good and tight. Have you started the motor since that day? Another possibility is the ignition switch is going bad, but I'd still suggest you look at a new starter selenoid.

 

[Haffiman]

Re: Prop Fouled, Engine Won't Start?

The only way he could have jump-started the engine without any move of the key must have been to jump the solenoid with the pliers. From B+ to the yellow/red wire. What he might have said was 'Hot start'- panas start, an expression I've heard here in Langkawi when jump-starting engines. Was you shift handle properly in neutral when you tried to start??

 

[Jungleboat]

Re: Prop Fouled, Engine Won't Start?

I think it does need a new ignition switch, as I find this one difficult to get the key in and out of. I don't know if that was what caused the problem the other day or not but this is a 2nd hand control unit as the one supplied with the engine was bendy plastic with no switch or anything.

Regarding starting it again, it was started up probably a total of 10 times during the course of that day, moving to different fishing spots and the like but no, it hasn't been started since the actual day. Currently saving up for a transom replacement.

I have noticed it can be hard to tell if this control unit is in forward, neutral or reverse. My old boat had a Johnson 90 and the same kind of OMC control but that one was very definite and clunky. You knew 100% if you were in forward or not but this "new" one is a bit vague. I find myself waggling it back and forth and checking for prop wash to make sure. I mention all this because it is not beyond the realms of possibility that it was in gear - however it shouldn't be possible for the engine to even try to start if the lever is in the forward or reverse position?

Certainly on my old boat if you tried starting in drive you'd get no response whatsoever, no clicking solenoid, nothing. That's given me a nasty turn more than once out on the water, so was the first thing I checked. I'm about as sure as I can be that the thing was in neutral, though that means only 90% sure, not 100%.

I am going to have to change that remote unit eventually though, as I don't like the vague feel, I don't like the sticking ignition key thing and it looks as old and mangy as it is, which looks silly next to the new stainless wheel etc. My budget is busted for now though.

Haffiman, what is "B+"? Oh, you just mean the battery positive, right?

Mmm... so hot-starts OK, just doesn't start when turning the key... That does sound like the problem is at the ignition key end, rather than under the engine cover then, doesn't it?

I think I'm deffo gonnna have to save up for a new remote throttle/key/choke/gear thingy.



JB

 

[oldcatamount]

Re: Prop Fouled, Engine Won't Start?

You've got a good analysis going there, keep it up and post back what you find out.