prop woes - at my wits end!

trebor135

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Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Messages
23
The boat: New 1900cc Seachaser offshore series. 17% deadrise, 103" beam, electric trim tabs and around 2500lbs. I elected to keep my existing engine: a 2000 Johnson 150. It had a 19" pitch x 14 3/4 - 3 blade Viper prop. I got 4200 rpms @ 42 mph. By the way, all of my testing was done with tabs all the way up. My dealer told me I needed a 17" x 14 1/4. I didn't know rpm difference caused by switching from 3 to 4 blades, so I bought a 4 blade Solas Titan HR (which nearly shook my teeth out). The 17 x 14 1/4 - 4 blade Solas got me up to 4900 rpms @ 42 mph; still far below the 5500 I need, so I sent it back. I called a guy at Stiletto and told him the story. He recommended a Bay III 4 blade (because this is a deep offshore boat) at 15" x 14 1/4. This prop got me up to 5200 rpms but this time I notice I was kicking a rooster tail 6 feet in the air. I never gained any speed over 4800 rmps. I can't say that I looked back when I was testing the Solas prop, so I not sure about the rooster tail. I don't have a lot of trim distance with this boat. My old boat had a performance pad and trimmed up nicely. This true vee with trim tabs is different animal! If I go to a 13" should I move up to a 15 diameter to help prevent the slipping? Everyone I have talked to up to this point is an expert with 500 years in the boating business. I am nearly broke from sending props back and forth. Help please.....I'm starting to lose it.....Rob.......... .. .. .. . .. .. . . . . . .
 

Tail_Gunner

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Jan 13, 2006
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6,237
Re: prop woes - at my wits end!

Id say your motor is a bit two high (rooster tail) or your trimmed out to far, it's also odd the 4 blade would vibrate......they normally have a better balance than a 3 blade unless it was badly cavitating again indicating you motor is two high..
 

trebor135

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Oct 19, 2003
Messages
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Re: prop woes - at my wits end!

Oddly enough the Titan HR vibrated in gear at idle. Sounded like someone was knocking on the boat. I only get the rooster tail if I trim it out trying to get the max rpms. It never broke completely out though. Thanks for the reply,
Rob
 

MikDee

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Jun 6, 2007
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Re: prop woes - at my wits end!

Ok, You didn't say if the props were Stainless or Aluminum? I'm guessing the 4blade 15" Stiletto is Stainlessl and giving you 5200rpm, Thus if you go to any Johnnyrude 3blade 15" prop, it should have enough diameter, and 5,500rpm making it just right. Although the rpms seem a bit low for a 150hp motor, on a 19ft boat, Is your motor running strong?
 

trebor135

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Oct 19, 2003
Messages
23
Re: prop woes - at my wits end!

Motor is strong. Good equal compression. Checked to see if throttle cable is giving me wot. All seems good. All props mentioned were stainless. I questioned the dealer about the motor being too high and he told me that it is in the standard mounting position (cav plate just below the bottom). It seems crazy to think I would have to drop all the way down to a 13" pitch. My old Sportcraft 20' Fisherman gave me 44mph with the same motor and was a much heavier boat (although it was a mod vee with a performance pad.) The other thing is that since I switched to this boat, it GUZZLES gas! I love the ride of the true vee, but it seems I have lost alot of performace and fuel economy.
 

Tail_Gunner

Admiral
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Jan 13, 2006
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6,237
Re: prop woes - at my wits end!

Perhap's Dahadly will chime in, he's the real expert

I read a little closer and picked up on " Your cav plate is below the botto" if your cav plate is below the bottom of the hull that is the problem. Here's a pic of a I/O and the cav plate is 1 inch above the bottom of the hull. Now if i could raise it id be there in a sec....

Picture031-1-1.jpg



Now the question is just where is your cav plate in relation to the hull???
 

ron7000

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Jul 10, 2004
Messages
498
Re: prop woes - at my wits end!

to give you a comparison, i have a 19' bayliner capri with a 130 hp merc i/o. The gear ratio is 2:1 and I run a 14x21" prop, motor turns 5000 rpm and i get around 40-42 mph. my weight with just me is about 2500 lbs, and it's a 18 degree deadrise for what it's worth. (deadrise number doesn't mean that much)

gear ratio of a 2000 johnson 150 is 1.86 I think, so doing some propeller math

Code:
efficiency = 1

Ratio 1.86
rpm/pitch	12	13	15	17	19	20	21
4000		24.4	26.5	30.5	34.6	38.7	40.7	42.8
4500		27.5	29.8	34.4	38.9	43.5	45.8	48.1
5000		30.5	33.1	38.2	43.3	48.4	50.9	53.5
5500		33.6	36.4	42.0	47.6	53.2	56.0	58.8


Ratio 1.98
rpm/pitch	12	13	15	17	19	20	21
4000		23.0	24.9	28.7	32.5	36.3	38.3	40.2
4500		25.8	28.0	32.3	36.6	40.9	43.0	45.2
5000		28.7	31.1	35.9	40.7	45.4	47.8	50.2
5500		31.6	34.2	39.5	44.7	50.0	52.6	55.2

Code:
efficiency = 0.85  (15% loss)

Ratio 1.86										
rpm/pitch	12	13	15	17	19	20	21
4000		20.8	22.5	26.0	29.4	32.9	34.6	36.4
4500		23.4	25.3	29.2	33.1	37.0	38.9	40.9
5000		26.0	28.1	32.5	36.8	41.1	43.3	45.4
5500		28.6	30.9	35.7	40.5	45.2	47.6	50.0

Ratio 1.98										
rpm/pitch	12	13	15	17	19	20	21
4000		19.5	21.1	24.4	27.6	30.9	32.5	34.1
4500		22.0	23.8	27.4	31.1	34.8	36.6	38.4
5000		24.4	26.4	30.5	34.6	38.6	40.7	42.7
5500		26.8	29.1	33.5	38.0	42.5	44.7	47.0

I threw the 100% efficiency numbers in there so you can always work out numbers on your own for other loss numbers,
given roughly the same size/weight boat maybe a little more power for you but if it's a deeper hull might balance out, so a max speed of 40-45mph, 40mph at least given a 19' boat with a 2000 150hp outboard, a 17" pitch prop at 5500 rpm is what I would buy as a first choice.

if you ran a stiletto 4-blade 15" pitch and only got 5200 rpms with rooster tail, you then either got a bad tach or your motor isn't making full power. Just because a motor has good compression doesn't mean it'll make full power, you might want to check over the motor, clean the carbs if it has them. and if it's a new boat with a bare fiberglass hull and you keep it in the water then check the bottom for growth, that would go along with poor fuel economy.

the cav plate can be slightly below or above the keel of the hull, it all depends on the hull and motor combo. If it's more an 1.5" or 2" then that's probably lower than it needs to be. But up to an inch below the keel is not going to be enough of a drag to drop rpms so i wouldn't worry about it. You could try raising the motor height, but you'll probably find the prop will ventilate more, you seemed to describe that from using the 14.25x15" prop.

for a 19' boat even though they call it a deep-v offshore, it's a small boat. I think you're getting misdirected on a 4-blade. they will have better bite more drag and not turn as many rpms as a 3-blade. looking at props they say a johnson 150 is supposed to turn 4500-5500 and you were pulling 4900 rpm with a 14.25x17" prop. To me that ballparks pretty well at 42mph if your mph reading is accurate. i would guess here that you're losing top end due to the 4 blades. i would stick with a 3 blade first, keep your variables down. get used to the boat and when you feel you have it trimmed right and the motor is making full power and will turn 5500 with a lower pitch prop, then start swapping props. right now you have no good baseline. i always had good luck with props from overton's, are you getting hit with a 20% prop return charge? that would suck.
 

trebor135

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Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Messages
23
Re: prop woes - at my wits end!

I've bee talking to a guy named Steve a Stiletto and he seems to agree that there is an underlying problem such as power loss because the numbers don't add up on the pitch/mph/rpm ratio. He said that the pitch reallistically works out to about 16 on the prop I have although they sell it as a 15. He also feels a 3 blade may be the way to go on my setup because he says the 4 blade hole shot/midrange difference will be hard to notice if I use a quality 3 blade prop instead. I going to blast out the high speed jets on the carbs and see if that makes any difference. Maybe i got one or two plugged and it's dragging me down. I gotta tell ya though, the motor seems to be running as slick as it can. Thanks for the input, all. I'll re-post after I check the engine out.
Rob...
 
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