Pulled drive found surprise

[capthook]

I have a Mercruiser 1973 3.0 140 H.P. With the pre alpha out drive I belive. Just to give a little history of my ownership of the boat. I bought this boat from a good friend of mine right at the end of the season this year. It needed the gear shifter adjusted and that was it, he just rebuilt the carb and put on a new water pump in the outdrive. I adjusted the shifter as per my manual. Worked great. Ran the boat a couple of weeks before it got cold here in Illinois. Ran great once all the bad gas was ran completly out. When I went to do my winterizing I drained everything fogged the carb and plug holes and changed the oil and filter. I then went to drain the outdrive gear lube and found milk. So I thought that I would just pull the whole drive unit for the winter and reseal the unit. Well to my surprise the seals in this unit were almost all pretty bad. And the water pump seals were all cracked and burnt up. The shaft that runs down through the pump had been rubing on the metel ring that was once the seal. Now the shaft has a little grove wore into it. I think that I can put a small weld on it and then buff it out smooth so I am not to worried about it. But what I am worried about is why all these seal went bad in the pump so soon. I never ran this boat without muffs on it. I did find a lot of mud in the manully water drain passage area in the lower unit that I had to ream out with a screw driver and high pressure air. So my question is what should I look for with the water pump problem and should I rebuild the whole unit or just reseal it and go.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Pulled drive found surprise

Some may disagree....But if it is that old and has been run in mud & silt....A rebuild is not out of the question at all.....or a new after market drive.....& a new bellows to insure your new investment....Welcome to iboats... ....& do some reading over the winter...... You are in the right forum, it doesn't get any better than this....JK

 

[capthook]

Re: Pulled drive found surprise

Well the rebuild would be more fesible for me right now rather then buying an aftermarket. This is my first boat and would like to learn as much about the out drive system as possible. Motors to me are like chewing gum. I have been mechanicly inclined for a long time. The out drive system looks like it would be a fun project to work on plus getting to know where my trouble areas may come from in the future. I am a robotic engineer for Caterpillar Inc. And I swear by Prevenitive Maint. So rest assure that even though this boat is old and has seen better days it will be taken care of. The first day that we took this boat out we were able to pull two tubes plus four people on the boat and getting on to plain in no time at all and we were still cruising along at least at 30-35 mph. Not bad for a 500$ boat. I forgot to state what type of boat. It is a Reinnel.

 

[DukesFin]

Re: Pulled drive found surprise

Welcome aboard! Man, $500!!! ... and it runs! Not bad at all!<br /><br />Your comment on looking forward to a rebuild on your first boat is inspiring. You will find the advice on this forum invaluable. Have fun "tinkering" this winter! We look forward to reports on your progress! Anything interesting, try to take pictures and post 'em on here.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Pulled drive found surprise

Well the rebuild would be more fesible for me right now rather then buying an aftermarket.

Sounds Great,......A $500. Boat,+ the Most it Might need is an Outdrive Rebuild,..!!....<br /><br />Be forewarned,... Rebuilding a drive.... It takes Several Specialized Tools,+ a Factory Shop Manual,... <br />Tight Tolerances,.....Lots of Checked,+, or Shimmed tolerances......<br /><br />Your Outdrive is as Fine piece of Machinery as the Robotics you're involved with at work........<br /><br />Good Luck,......

 

[cobra 3.0]

Re: Pulled drive found surprise

I was going to repair my drive...until I found out about shims and tolerances and specialised tools and testing from my manual. Now my OMC mechanic will be doing it. This just isn't a job for a backyard mechanic like myself.

 

[ziggy]

Re: Pulled drive found surprise

capthook, i got me one of those pre alphas too. yers sounds just like mine. 1st time i took mine apart i found sand had filled up parts of the lower unit also. i thought it was just from not being taken apart and serviced much. + mine just sat in a lake and got little use. why are you wondering about how soon you are needing to replace the seals. that is an old unit. so is mine, and i'm under the impression that anything may be broke about it for its age. my upper and lower seals on the lower drive shaft were both fried too. i got the wear on my lower drive shaft too. my lower seal on the drive shaft seems tolarable, the upper seal i used a speedi sleeve on. your welding idea sounds pretty good. but to me i would rather replace the drive shaft. a rather expensive part. so i speedi sleeved it and seems to have worked. as for what to look for on the water pump. well, i tried replaceing the impeller only 1st. that lasted not to long before i overheated again. then replaced impeller, impeller housing top & bottom. the lower seal is in the lower houseing. i had minamil wear on the drive shaft at that point so only speedi sleeved the upper seal. if ya do the speedi sleeve thing. put the impeller on first as it won't go over the speedi sleeve. if the impeller was fried, at least flush water both ways to remove bits and pieces of impeller that will try to flow twards the engine and get into the water passages in the engine. i also found a gasket leak on my water pocket cover in the upper while flushing the pieces out. use your own judgement there, as the bolts that hold the water pocket cover on may be froze solid. mine were and i broke 3 of 4 off trying to tighten it. much pain to get the studs out but was successful and now has helicoils in it. as for the other seals in the leg. i'm thinking a pressure, vac. test would be in order to see if it holds pressure. if it does the inside seals are good, if it don't then you'll have to take it apart further to replace those seals. i have not done that persoanly but may be soon enough, as i am not holding pressure. it will take special merc. tools to take it apart and put it back together again....so far that's my experice with my prealpha. i've got much to learn. have fun.....

 

[mkast]

Re: Pulled drive found surprise

I don't know what part of IL you live in, but, instead of you trying to rebuild the drive yourself. I might suggest Riggs Marine in Eldorado WI, just outside of Fond du Lac. You don't have the tooling, and possibly the measuring tools you'll need. They get $450 for a cleanup and reseal, with a one year warranty.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Pulled drive found surprise

Capthook, if you live right outside Peoria, we have met before. Especially if you own a Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth minivan that you had lft frt corner damage!<br />If this is you, I'd be more than happy to help you with your repair/reinstall.<br />And yes, if you operate on the Illinois River, it's possible to suck a lot of mud in a hurry!!!!

 

[capthook]

Re: Pulled drive found surprise

I will try to post pics after the first snow all melts away. Right now I am just reading up on the manual. one thing that I did notice that the manual said and I did not find when taken the out drive off was shims in the cover assembly of the upper gear box unit. Their were none. Is this normal? Did this particular unit not need shimed when fully assembeled. Right now all I have done is the unit split and all the seals taken out that I can get to and plus the water pump unit. As for the sleeve I think that sounds a little less time consuming then rather putting a weld bead down then buffing. Thanks for the thoughts fellas keep them coming and I will try to get the pictures of my boat and out drive just as soon as it warms up. I have the out drive in my shed right now sitting in oil so that it wont rust in case all the oil seaps away over time. My wife wont let me bring it inside. Dang women!

 

[capthook]

Re: Pulled drive found surprise

tilliamwe Well i dont own a mimi van but I live in Peoria heights. And yes I do operate on the Illinois River. I was thinking about going down to warf harbor and picking their brains a little on the subject but I dont like asking experts that get paid for a living about what the know without being able to give them something in return for the valubale time. If your willing to give a stranger a hand. Man I am all about it. I love knowledge and picking peoples brains. Let me know.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Pulled drive found surprise

shoot me an e-mail if you like<br /><br />I happen to keep my boat at the wharf!

 

[whywhyzed]

Re: Pulled drive found surprise

Originally posted by capthook:<br /> I have a Mercruiser 1973 <br />...<br /><br />...<br /><br />But what I am worried about is why all these seal went bad in the pump so soon.

33 years is soon?<br />EDIT<br />ahh geez... I just reread where you say new w/p sorry... the girls at Big Al's say hi!

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Pulled drive found surprise

are you sure thats a 3.0 motor? the first of the 3.0 motors was in the later 80's.<br /> to do the seals in the upper is rather easy but will require the spanner wrench to remove the yoke assy and an inch pounds torque wrench for reassy, ALWAYS use a new pinion nut and tension washer. the shims you speak of are under the upper driven shaft bearing, the cap has no shim just an oring.remove the cap, remove the yoke assy and the rest lifts out giving access to the driven gear seal. that seal is designed to keep oil in and if the shaft seal located below it leaks it will allow water into the upper case. .<br /> to reseal the lower will require a spanner for the lock ring, I never use it for removal, its to fast and easy to simply cut the nut with a drill and replace it.<br /> you will need a bearing carrier puller, the OMC J-bolt one with a harmonic balancer puller works better than the merc tool.<br /> you will need the shift shaft bushing tool. can be made with a 3/8 drive 7/16th socket and some 1/4" stock and a welder or purchased for 15 bucks or so. for just a reseal there is no need to pull the drive shaft but if you wish to it will require the pinion nut holder and the drive shaft turning adapter. most shimming is done by placing shims under the bearing race.<br /> does your lower unit drive shaft have a little pin at the top ?<br /> if your lower water pump housing has a flush plug remove it before trying to pry the lower housing from the bore or bad things can happen. <br /> and never never ever start the motor without water to the pump assy. takes 30 seconds to start melting the housing then the lower shaft wobbles even more and the wear plate cuts the shaft. if the actual seal surface is not cut up the area where the cup and plate scratch the shaft can just be polished a bit and left alone.

 

[uaw9fan]

Re: Pulled drive found surprise

I believe the vertical shaft is stainless steel in the upper section and steel in the lower section.So if your cut section of the shaft is in the stainless section it might make welding a little more difficult.<br />Once you get the shaft out run a magnet up and down it and you will see what I mean