Ray, Rodbolt....I've got me a HOTROD Yammie!!

[brownies]

Back when I was younger, I built lots of go fast cars. I remember seeing my first "remote stater". (where you could push a button while in the house and your car would start and warm up before you left the house).<br /> I always wondered "Who pumped the gas pedal?"<br />I've long sinced changed my ways, maybe age?<br />"changed" though, not quit.<br /> My old 72 Chevy truck isn't a "hotrod", but, it is running an 01 5.3L vortec drivetrain in it and nobody "pumps the gas pedal" to start it and I'm not sure when the last time the hood was raised.<br /> I guess I forgot what a hotrod was when I decided to make my 150 vmax go faster. <br />NOW, It's all coming back to me. (the long walks in the snow, the reason I carried a toolbox and almost everything needed to rebuild an engine in my trunk, the fact that the hood was open on my car at least twice a day)....<br /> I feel my boat may be headed in this direction.... I've now successfully regressed myself back 25 years to being an idiot with a hotrod. It's just a 2 stroke hotrod now.<br /> I bought a KIT from hydrotech (heads, jets, reeds, intake, intake plate, tuner, exhaust plate). The mechanics of it was easy and I sure don't think I did anything wrong.<br /> Compression 165-175psi cold on all cylinders.<br />1st time out the boat started and ran fine.<br />two days later, would not start, plugs gas fouled. Cleaned em up, dried it out, FINALLY Got it running, cleared it out, start/stop no problems the rest of the day.<br /> Changed plugs later that same day and everything still fine.<br /> Third time out...Won't start, plugs gas fouled again.<br /> Seems that if I put it on the trailer and letting it set for a day, It's not going to start. Never had this problem before.<br /> Any idea what I have done wrong??

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Ray, Rodbolt....I've got me a HOTROD Yammie!!

double check the floats and needles as well as the fuel pump diaphrams. then on to the recirc check valves.<br /> also double check the choke. however not knowing what year Vmax we are discussing is a handicap as I have no clue what ign system we are discussing.<br />and do you have a spark tester capeable of checking all six cylinders at once?

 

[brownies]

Re: Ray, Rodbolt....I've got me a HOTROD Yammie!!

I have a cheapy spark tester. Spark seems weak, but, I think that "looking" at a spark and making a determination is something that was learned from experience, and, I don't feel I'm smart enough to view a spark and give an accurate recomendation.<br /> It does spark though, and once running, runs fine and will start again and again that same day.<br /> It's a 98 model carb Vmax 150. (CDI?) <br />Kind of think the problem may be with something I've done instead of a rare coincidence that some electronic part just went bad during the time I was bolting parts on. (I've been wrong before though).<br /> <br /> The 1st time out after initial run, when it did not start. I had stopped at the gas station and put 89 octane in. Very rarely do I pump the ball, but, I gave it a few squeezes. Sort of sounded like fuel "squirting" into the engine (cover was on). I didn't think much about it until It wouldn't start out at the lake, although, just to listen to it, you would have thought a fuel line was loose and it was spraying a stream and hitting the inside of the motor cover (that loud).<br /> The second time out, I didn't pump the ball. Boat would not start and I checked that ball. It wouldn't pump...it was firm like it was already pumped up with pressure on it.<br /> Battery good, starter spins fast fast.<br />Carbs are dry, nothing leaking on the outside of them. Choke solenoid is working fine, hooked up, and all working all the carb blades as it should.<br /> Fuel pump diaghram?

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Ray, Rodbolt....I've got me a HOTROD Yammie!!

ok<br /> now we go to basics. symtom. wont start. additional checking shows wet spark plugs. what can cause wet plugs? we are either dumping raw fuel in the cranksae/intake tract or we are not burning what we put in at the initial start up and creating a flooding issue.<br />you need to make a sparktester, seach the forums with the search feature and you will see the ones I made, to test that the spark is capeable of jumping a 7/16ths gap. the increased compression will place an increased load on the ign system.<br />do the spark test with the plugs installed to simulate cranking speed.<br /> its possible that your cranking speed is insufficient to generate a correct secondary voltage.<br /><br /> now for the carbs, are you sure they have no leaking needle valves allowing fuel to bypass the inlet needle and go into the intake manifold?<br /><br /> a bad fuel pump diaphram will usually only flood the lower cylinders. but its still worth checking.<br />I am not very smart either thats why I use the factories 7/16ths spark gap spec, takes the guess work out of that part.<br />are you advancing the throttle when initially starting it or starting it at a dead idle?

 

[Ray Neudecker]

Re: Ray, Rodbolt....I've got me a HOTROD Yammie!!

After following the instructions above. First of all, you should not go with anything less than 93 octane with the Hydro Tec heads. Second, check for a ground wire which may not have been hooked up or tightened. All of the things Rodbolt listed are the basic trouble shooing items needed to help determine the problem. I reccomend doing away with and blocking off the fuel pumps for this set up. Install a Blue Holley with the regulator set at 6 lbs or slightly below to provide the fuel. What jets were used and what is the timing set on?

 

[brownies]

Re: Ray, Rodbolt....I've got me a HOTROD Yammie!!

Choke........(closes all the way "now")...grrr!!!!<br /> It was something I did, or didn't do. The intake plate and reedplate must be just a bit "different" thickness than what was removed, or ????<br /> I checked all sort of stuff, cranked and cranked again and again, Dried out the plugs, shot of ether (against my better judgement)....nothing, not even a burp.<br /> Not until those blades closed "completely". When they did, that was all it took.<br /> Now, why would the plugs be soaking wet and gas fouled? <br /> AND....If I switch to an electric fuel pump, any reason I can't go with a Mallory, or something quieter than a Holley Blue?<br /> 170 and 172 jets.

 

[brownies]

Re: Ray, Rodbolt....I've got me a HOTROD Yammie!!

Ray, now that it starts, maybe I can screw it up some more.<br /> Timing is set at 22.<br />Do I need to head north with it?

 

[Ray Neudecker]

Re: Ray, Rodbolt....I've got me a HOTROD Yammie!!

No real reason for the fuel pump choice other than price and years of experience with the reliability of the Holley. I personally want to hear the pump when I turn on the key and can tell when the system is full of fuel before I attempt to start. They can be quietened a lot by the way and place they are mounted. It seems that you are also rich in the jetting and timing. When the fuel and air mixture are not at the right ratio, they don't allow the engine to fire , the fuel remains in the chanber and fouls the plugs.<br /> If you know how to read the plugs or piston, you can one step at a time, advance the timing or reduce the jets until you hit the right combination.<br /> As a rule I do not run the hot heads on Bass or Ski boats due to the danger of the engine blowing from detonation. I really haven't seen enough gain from them to justify the expense of the higher priced and often unavailable at marinas premium fuel.<br /> The other changes you have made except for the heads would have you at 164 or 165 jets depending on the year model carbs and 26 degrees timing for optimum performance. This would be on regular grade of gas. 28 degrees if you use the higher octane fuel.<br /> Those kits must be selling well, since I have had several inquiries about why the engines were not performing well with them lately.<br /> The problem is not in the parts combination, but in the setup that goes with them.<br /> Not sure the point in adding all of those changes and then fattening the engine until it won't perform. If you are not comfertable with your skills on reading the plugs and dialing in what you have, then you need to get with some one who can do this for you. <br /> Hydro Tec has to be very conservative in the jetting and timing associated with these kits, since they will most likely be blamed if the engine blows right after installation of the kit.<br />If they would leave off the hot heads, the reliability and performance would make you grin.

 

[brownies]

Re: Ray, Rodbolt....I've got me a HOTROD Yammie!!

I took three 164 jets out of it. The others were right in there also (close to 164's).<br /> I'm thinking about working my way up in timing a degree at a time and higher octane now that it will start.<br /> Even Hydrotech was amazed by the 175psi compression. They said after these upgrades it's usually 145-155.<br /> I do notice more smoke at idle now. (22 degree timing and rich jets?)

 

[Ray Neudecker]

Re: Ray, Rodbolt....I've got me a HOTROD Yammie!!

Likely the combination is causing the smoke at idle. I have seen too many variances in guages to put tremendous faith in the numbers. They know the heads are not supposed to show that much compression based on their guages. Raising the timing is the most logical step. Do so only one degree at a time since that is equal to a 4 mm jet change. When you feel a drastic change and the plug readings are ok then stop. Thats about all you are going to get in performance gain.