Rectifier replacement 1977 Chrysler 135HG

[seattle scott]

Jeeze I get the timing figured out and now I see the rectifier is smoking and hot. I see that CDI makes a replacement that will replace the obsolete Mercury part F404470-1 and I can get it from Sea-Way Marine here in Seattle, but it is $100. The engine still runs lousy, lots of flat spots when opening the throttle and running real rough and there may be a lower unit seal problem.

So two questions, anyone have source for a rectifier for less than $100 and is the rectifier just part of the charging system and has nothiing to do with poor operation of the motor? Meaning if I replace the rectifier I will charge the battery but the motor will still run like crap?

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Rectifier replacement 1977 Chrysler 135HG

Well, while the rectifier/regulator can cause running problems, in your other post, the real reason for poor performance was explained.

Your engine should have the finned Motorola regulator/rectifier. It could be acceptable to replace it with the Force rectifier but then your system voltage may go up to 16 and I don't know what it will do to your replacement Motorola CD box. You see: Unlike the later Force Prestolite ignition with unregulated power, the Motorola CD takes power from the battery to charge the capacitors and to run the rest of the electronics. I don't know what an extra 2-4 volts would do. This is something I have never tried.

Your rectifier could have been so hot because the CD unit was malfunctioning and drawing much more power than normal.

The Motorola regulator/rectifier is a very expensive one, something like 200 bucks new. Your best bet would be to cruise craigslist and ebay for a Chrysler 3 or 4 cylinder blown powerhead junker with a good ignition and swap it into yours. The other option would be to find a whole Prestolite ignition and swap it onto your engine. This requires the flywheel, CD boxes, timing tower, alternator, trigger, and related wiring. You also MUST drill and tap the block for the stator mount and make a 1/16 thick ring to correctly space and support the upper ball bearing. While it sounds like a lot, it is really not all that much work and you will get a better ignition system.

OH! And by the way: With that multiple spark problem it is not a certainty but a good bet that the timing will still be off.

 

[seattle scott]

Re: Rectifier replacement 1977 Chrysler 135HG

Frank I will impose on your hospitality some more. Will part 152-9209 for $32 from Mastertech Marine at http://www.maxrules.com/fixforcelectric.html#1954470 work for a straight replacment of my retifier. The one mounted now is as depicted as part 195-4470 one that web site.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Rectifier replacement 1977 Chrysler 135HG

That is the square Force rectifier that I was talking about in the above reply. It will give an unregulated power supply and I don't know if your stator will produce 16 volts like the later Force stators. It may only deliver 14. I have never measured it.

They say it will work, but I have never tried it. Somewhere in here there is a post: You can get the same part at Radio Shack for 10 bucks.

Before you change regulators though you still need to change the CD box.

 

[Nordin]

Re: Rectifier replacement 1977 Chrysler 135HG

I think it will work with that rectifier from Radioshrack or Mastertech, remember that the battery act as a big accumulator/load and hold the voltage down.
The early 55Hp (single carb) with Magnapower CD had only a rectifier and no regulator from factory.

 

[seattle scott]

Re: Rectifier replacement 1977 Chrysler 135HG

Thank guys for this and the other reponse on the CD unit. Whats surprising is that Sea-Way Marine (sea-way.com) here in Seattle says they have the CDI brand rectifier and also the original part each for $39, though their web site has the original #F4044701 listed for $100 - I am going to follow up with Sea-Way and see what they recommend.

 

[tater76]

Re: Rectifier replacement 1977 Chrysler 135HG

Scott, if you can afford to buy a blown force parts motor (and they are around), then do the swap as Frank said. I did it to my 75hp chrysler, its time consuming, and requires some skill, but the parts availability is much better for the prestolite ignition. I sold the old ignition setup to offset the cost. The whole operation cost me $10 for a tap, and I traded for the parts motor

 

[RRitt]

Re: Rectifier replacement 1977 Chrysler 135HG

the force rectifier is a standard square bridge. it is even more standardized than round tires for cars. If the part is a "square bridge" then it fits. they are all epoxy encased with metal base so there is no concern about "marine". The minimum breakdown voltage is 300V so there is no concern about voltage. They are commonly available from 1A to 50A. Make sure to get 25A or more. They need to be bolted onto some form of heatsink like the starter bracket or they may burn out. With even modest heatsink they are virtually indestructible. Mouser, ebay, and other sources of industrial electronics will have thousands in stock for under $3 each without requiring a commercial account.

if the battery is disconnected while the engine is running then system voltage will spike to match stator. this is a common source of damage to electronics that do not have built in regulation. If you use the rectifier and have sensitive electronics they should either have their own protection or be wired to the battery post with threaded nut. That way they remain connected to battery power even if the main engine cable is lifted.

 

[seattle scott]

Re: Rectifier replacement 1977 Chrysler 135HG

RRIT, I just paid $39 for the OEM part F404470-1, the box says Made in US May 99. from sea-way.com ( seattle). They said they have 10 more on the shelf. The web site says $100 but I guess they are matching the CDI retifier price.

I probably broke my old rectifier when I disconected the battary cable while the engine was running ( the theory was that if engine kept runing then the stator was making electricity) which I now know I should not have done.

 

[RRitt]

Re: Rectifier replacement 1977 Chrysler 135HG

that part number is a regulator, which is different from a rectifier. A rectifier would be something like part # F650450

I think the one you got for $39 is a better unit than the universal one people are paying $40 for. It has a main square body and a separate oval part. The oval part is probably a TO3 transistor. The output transistor is going to be the make-break part since it has to feed or absorb all the power. TO3 is a high power package and your $39 regulator should be able to dish out 50-100watts.

(you got a good buy)

 

[M9.9]

Re: Rectifier replacement 1977 Chrysler 135HG

A fishing friend of mine had a /77? seventy-five HP 3-carb Chrysler ("Geysler") with the EI failure after running the engine for about twenty-minutes. Even putting a cooler between it and the engine only made it last a little longer before shutting down.
Anyway, he fixed the problem (as then (82) he could'nt source a new module), by reverting back to a points ignition. It ran great for the next three years he had it and the bowrider. Go like hell.

 

[seattle scott]

Re: Rectifier replacement 1977 Chrysler 135HG

Well I installed the new OEM regulator ( well its actually hanging from the wires since the 3 screws in the old one broke off at the heads and I need ot figure out a drill and tap repair) and installed the CDI brand coil and CD box thing and the engine runs and the battary is getting 13 plus volts at the terminals when running. Engine runs better, less misfires and a little less smoking exhaust.

TO reset the timing is it the same procedure as with the old motorola CD box. Get is set and tap the dist belt to see if it fires at 30-32 degres BTDC?

 

[RRitt]

Re: Rectifier replacement 1977 Chrysler 135HG

i would guess that you'll burn up that new regulator if you don't bolt it onto some big slab of metal. regulators dump off the extra voltage as heat and if you don't have something to sink the heat into then they usually don't last very long.

 

[seattle scott]

Re: Rectifier replacement 1977 Chrysler 135HG

RRitt, will do ( get the regulator mounted). Here is the old one and some pics of the new ignition box and new regulator.
I also attached a pic of the rotor and inside of dist cap, which had a bunch of ash/dust in the top of the upside down cap. Anyone see and problems regarding the rotor etc. The engine still runs rough.

 

[stubtail]

Re: Rectifier replacement 1977 Chrysler 135HG

I haven't pulled a distributor cap for a while, so I may be blowing a little smoke here, but it appears as though the dust under the cap is actually plastic machined off the rotor. The rotor is grooved on the top, and that may be from contact with whatever is seen protruding from the cap (brass-like in the photo). Should that be the case, you would have to determine why the contact occurred - has the entire distributor shaft dropped or the rotor moved. Again, I could be seeing things!

 

[seattle scott]

Re: Rectifier replacement 1977 Chrysler 135HG

Stub, I think you are correct. i didn't notice the ring ground into the rotor until you mentioned it and the ring looks like it matches up with the 2 posts protruding from the cap. MMMMMMMM, what is up with that? The engine is new to me - wasn't running when I got it. now that I think of it, I don't think the gasket ( its part 38 in the diagram) that goes between the cap and distributor is there, so the cap sits higher - the rotor lower.

 

[stubtail]

Re: Rectifier replacement 1977 Chrysler 135HG

I was going to go out into my storage shed and pull a distributor cap, but with -35 degrees out there, I didn't think too long and hard about that. You mentioned you didn't have the gasket. That would definitely change the relationship between the cap and rotor. Almost surprised the "contact" (bad choice of words; nothing suitable came to mind) on the rotor didn't run down against the "contacts" on the cap. That gasket should be there for safety reasons when running to keep potentially volatile fumes from getting in under the cap. (bad things can happen) The rotor and cap are likely unaffected by the contact between each other.

 

[seattle scott]

Re: Rectifier replacement 1977 Chrysler 135HG

Stub, I have ordered the gasket. Sea-Way Marine in Seattle seems to have everything.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Rectifier replacement 1977 Chrysler 135HG

Those two "posts" are actually the screws that hold the two halves of the distributor cap together. They are not original and are too long. Replace with screws about 1/8 inch shorter. I THINK they are 6-32 but don't quote me there.

The wires pass through the top and then through a thick rubber gasket. From there they are speared onto brass posts in the bottom part of the cap. The rubber is compressed between the two halves by the screws, squeezes the wires, and this holds the wires tight.

There is a screened explosion-proof vent in the side of the distributor body. The gasket seals the cap to the distributor but is not absolutely necessary--in fact, if it is too thick, the cap locating pin will not engage the hole in the cap rim. However, since the cap is tight to the distributor body, leaving off the gasket will not hurt anything and there still is room inside for the rotor to fit correctly. Since you have ordered the gasket, use it unless it causes problems.

 

[seattle scott]

Re: Rectifier replacement 1977 Chrysler 135HG

Thanks Frank - as always your observation is correct. I took one of the screws out and the "post" disappeared, so I will get a couple a little shorter.