Relays on tilt/trim

familyfun

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
43
First, I have an '88 force 125 that the tilt/trim isn't working on. Not even sure if the motor is operable. The gent who owned it before me said it worked off/on so he drained the fluid and disconnected the wires so he could just manually lift the motor at the end of the day. I mainly want to be able to trim the motor so it will plane on the water. I hooked the fluid lines up and filled with fluid and hooked the wires back up according to the schematic but didn't have any luck. I've read where people have had problems with the relays in the past. So what I was thinking about doing is bypassing the relays and putting a DPDT switch in and running 14/3 so cord to the motor. Does anyone know how much current the motor pulls and what size fuse's to put inline? Also, it is a 3 wire motor. The only reason i'm thinking about doing it this way is I have the parts at hand and wouldn't have to buy anything. Any feedback is appreciated.

Thanks:)
 

Frank Acampora

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
Re: Relays on tilt/trim

With an 88 engine, the trim motor should be two wire. before you run extra wire to the dash, disconnect the green and blue wires running to the motor. NOW with one wire grounded, touch the other to the battery cable on the battery side of the solenoid. If the motor runs, then at least one relay is bad OR the switch itself is bad. Reversing the wires will have the motor turn in the opposite direction. If it functions in both directions, then check the switch and relays. With a three wire motor, use black for ground and alternately touch each colored wire to the battery positive.

If you insist on running separate wiring and bypassing relays--not really good engineering practice --I do not recommend it, in fact, I hope to dissuade you, but it is acceptable--The old 3 wire system without relays used #10 wire. The motor can draw up to 30 amps.

HOWEVER: Because the two wire motor uses relays and because each wire is at ground potential for each direction, wiring a 2 wire motor without relays is difficult. Simply put, when green has power, blue is at ground and the tilt system goes down. When blue has power, green is at ground, the motor turns opposite, and the system goes up. The relays do the switching for you in addition to allowing you to use only low amp signal power at the dashboard switch.

Look at some of my previous answers to tilt/trim posts. In the last one I even gave NUMBERS of relays that can be found in junkyard autos. These relays are standard and can be found (without the mounting ears) in GM and Ford vehicles.

With the three wire motor, Each color wire is powered for one direction only and the black wire is ground. This motor WAS the one that early Chrysler wired without relays. I never liked the fact that full motor current was put through the dashboard switch. Lots of amperage and sparking at the switch. This shortens switch life.

With a little thought, the same relays used on the two wire motor can be used for a three wire motor. All that needs to be changed is to NOT wire the default ground on each relay. Thus: now it is possible to use low amperage signal current to activate the high draw motor. MUCH BETTER!
 

RRitt

Captain
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
3,319
Re: Relays on tilt/trim

On the one hand,
yes - you can use a DPDT instead of relays. Wire battery power to the outer posts and the motor leads to the inner. Wire it up so that polarity flips depending upon which way switch is pushed.

On the other hand,
no - you shouldn't use 14/3. The voltage drop in a 6-10ft cable will be too much. Need to run 12/2 or 10/2.
 

CharlieB

Vice Admiral
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
5,617
Re: Relays on tilt/trim

Long wire runs + high current loads = HEAT

NOT a good combination on a boat.

HEAT + combustables (wire insulation) = FIRE

Definitely NOT a good combination on a boat.

Ya think this might be why ALL the manufacturers use relays?

Do it RIGHT, the first time.

It ain't worth dying over, cause you don't always get a second chance out on the water.
 

RRitt

Captain
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
3,319
Re: Relays on tilt/trim

nah, they use relays because it is cheaper. Trim requires a fairly powerful motor and they are very sensitive to voltage drop. After about 6-8' it is cheaper to install relays than to install big, expensive wire with heavy duty switches & connectors. The wire he needs for his boat is running about $2 per foot. Add in the extra labor needed to install the big wiring and it's way cheaper to just use relays.
 

familyfun

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
43
Re: Relays on tilt/trim

Is there any alternatives too the trim part? I'm pretty sure the motor is shot. I really don't want to spend $300 on a new motor. It looks like someone tried to D.I.Y. it before and didn't really know what they was doing. I'm not a stranger to D.C. motors and thought about replacing the brushes and cleaning the magnet up a little but can't find replacements parts.

Thanks
 

wajajaja02

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 21, 2008
Messages
667
Re: Relays on tilt/trim

I carry extra relays, buy them six at a time, to equal out the shipping, they burn out if the battery voltage drops too low thus drawing too much amperage. and keep a extra socket too.
 

RRitt

Captain
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
3,319
Re: Relays on tilt/trim

First things first. Wire directly to battery and see if it spins. If your motor is dead then it boils down to the brush card. You can get new brushes and springs from Mercury. The motors are fairly simple and inexpensive to fix. A typical pump overhaul including both motor and valve body is around $160ish. But if the circuit board is bad, then you're S.O.L. I have to have the circuit boards made locally because there is no other option I have found. I don't think that a DIY has any viable options for a broken circuit board.
 
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