Replacing decking & stringers with composists??

[Boilermaker]

I am in the planing stages (thinkin' 'bout it alot ) of replacing the flooring and possably the stringers in my 1971 18Ft Westwind. The boat sat in my dads yard for alot of years and the transome rotted out. I had a shop replace it in the summer and had some fun with the boat. Towards the end of the season (Nov) I started to notice a few soft spots in the flooring>>>not real bad, but not solid as it should be.<br /><br />I remember seeing something on a TV show called "SHIP-SHAPE TV" where they replaced the pylwood floor with structural foam/composit boards. Has anyone here seen or done this??? Is it cost effective??? Stronger, lighter, ???<br />I was wondering about the stringers too>>>Seems as though most manufacturers are getting away from wood construction. Is this for longevity??? easier manufacturing, cheaper resourses??? And most importantly>>>CAN WE UTILIZE these technequies??? I would amagin a composit stringer could be made much stronger & lighter then using wood>>>and then you would never have to worry about whats under foot again. <br /><br />One last question>>>I currently have a 18gal fuel tank mounted between the flooring and the deck forward of the windsheild (deep Vee bow, side console). How hard would it be to install a tank under the flooring instead???I could gain much needed storeage space under the bow decking, and increase the fuel capacity for my hungry 115 hp Johnson. I would love to get at least double my current fuel load. How do you route the fuel fill and vent lines from below the flooring in the middle of the boat??? <br /><br />Thanks <br />Jim

 

[crab bait]

Re: Replacing decking & stringers with composists??

all i really know about composite at all is basicly zilch.. but i do know about wood.. a wood job<br />with the rite type woods,, done rite can be a hand down heirloom.. <br /><br />composites ,,i do know ,,has to be a total system..an must be a student of said system.. <br /><br />the composite 'trex' type wood.. is not meant for stucture.. as far as foam,, what can i say... it's foam for stringers,,for cryin' out loud..<br /><br />wood is hard to beat.. it has the best quailities of anything goin'... strong , shock resistence,compression, stress loadin', flexiablity, shape retaining, workable, glueable,, on an on.. but yes does rot.. <br /><br />but if done rite,,the rite woods,,an epoxy system,, unbreached,, it'll last..<br /><br />as far as the tank.... sorry.. no can do.. <br />all boats by order of USCG,, must have level floation.. that's why the designers put it where it's at n first place...put the tank under.. must sacrafice floation foam..

 

[Boilermaker]

Re: Replacing decking & stringers with composists??

I do beleave my boat is manufactured PRIOR to the manditory flotation requirement>>& I don't beleave there is any foam in there now. That is something I am also looking into as far as adding to the boat>>> I can only assest the situation in the spring when I can open her up! I really hate only having the 18 gal tank. Just bouncing things around for ideas!!! THANKS

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Replacing decking & stringers with composists??

You will probably find once you open the floor that the voids were not foamed all the way. It may be possible to install a generic belly tank in the middle under the floor as the middle bilge usually isn't foam anyway. If you fill all the voids completely with foam, install the belly tank properly and as far forward as you can, you may find out you can actually have more floatation foam than before, and end up with the usable space you are looking for. As for whether the boat is required to have foam or not, I don't think that is the way you should look at it. If you or your family is out there, you suffer some sort of catastrophic hul breach, that foam is the only thing that will save your life. You want that boat at the surface, something big and highly visible to cling to until help comes. It does you no good if you are bobbing out there with a PFD on in 50 degree water and no one can see you. Yeah, the foam is spendy and a pain to deal with, but it beats the alternative.<br /><br />As for composites, I myself have not used them, but I know the system works well. The downfall is it is much more expensive. I agree that if properly installed, a wood system will do you fine. The boat lasted 32 years on its original wood, and they never built the boats like you can rebuild it now. There is no reason why you can't go with wood and glass and have a boat that will last at least another 32 years. The key is how you care for it. Keep it covered, don't leave it in the rain and snow all the time, don't let water sit in the bilge, and the boat will last forever. Good luck and post plenty o' pics...

 

[BillP]

Re: Replacing decking & stringers with composists??

I priced out composite sheets 2-3 years ago and cost was about $400 per sheet. It was the cheapest around but maybe you can find it for less. It takes approx 4 sheets to do an 18' floor and transom...maybe more. Whereas the "best" marine pressure treated ply is approx $100 a sheet and regular marine half of that. Exterior half again.<br /><br />Like already posted. With careful work sealing and glassing, ply and poly resin will last a loooong time.<br />

 

[rickstiles]

Re: Replacing decking & stringers with composists??

This composit is a liquid it is 5 times stronger as plywood i used it in my trandom & stringers dont have to replace wood again.it was made by a german in california.its called seacast .

 

[Ryoken]

Re: Replacing decking & stringers with composists??

we use composites all the time. stuff is bullet proof. <br /><br />as noted earlier, it is expensive. i'd have to check our pricelist at work, but yes, it runs about 300 to 500 a sheet. this is for the regular extruded solid stuff. not the core filled style, which i haven't used, but have contemplated for a few projects recently.... if i remember correctly the core filled stuff isn't cheap either, but not quite as pricey as the solid stuff.<br /><br />couple things about the composite. you will absolutely need a diamond tipped blade to cut it. we use a $100 circular saw blade for it. now that blade has lasted about 5 yrs now, but it is the only thing that will cut that stuff consistently. grinding for tabbing, etc is a chore also. <br /><br />for a floor with a semi decent interval of support you can get away with 3/8 or 1/4, especially if it has foam under it. 1/2 is way strong and way heavy and way overkill for most projects. i don't use a heck of alot of 1/2, but we do buy 20 to 30 sheets a year of the stuff ranging from 1/8 to 1/2. it is also available in channel and angle stuff too...<br /><br />tell ya what, it is sweet having scraps of that stuff around. everything from strainer brackets to dashs to hull backing plates to fishboxes, it's nice stuff to have around. got 2 55 gallon drums full of scraps. you can actually drill and tap this stuff, nice <br /><br />i've also been using the 1/2 to shoe keels on Grand Banks and such over recent years and it's amazing how well it holds up..<br /><br />also, it gels nicely, but it must be primed if you plan on paint.<br /><br />i'm sure the company we use must have a website, i just forget the name. i can bring the info home from work if someone is interested tho. <br /><br />just let me know... hope that helps

 

[Bondo]

Re: Replacing decking & stringers with composists??

Ryoken,<br />Who, Where ????<br />I Gotta Know More........<br />Thanks....

 

[Ryoken]

Re: Replacing decking & stringers with composists??

i'll dig that info up tommorrow for ya and post it when i get home Bondo.

 

[Hooty]

Re: Replacing decking & stringers with composists??

Here's one source for composite panels and there are others. I built my own though. It's a little tricker then wood, that's why most don't like to mess with it.<br /><br /> Compsoite Panels. <br /><br />c/6<br />Hooty

 

[Ryoken]

Re: Replacing decking & stringers with composists??

hey Bondo, well unfortunately they don't seem to have a website, just did a search. the guy we get ours from is a place in Trenton, NJ named <br /><br />Molded Fiberglass Product Co, Inc.<br />9 industrial court<br />trenton, nj 08638<br />(609) 538-8822 fax (609) 538-8288<br /><br />i'm pretty sure he may just be a distributor. so their may be others in other states. if you called i'm sure they'd send out a catalog and give ya any info ya wanted. the owners name is Ken Sutter.<br /><br />i was hoping they would have a website so you could see whats available. lots of different cool products.<br /><br />for guys doing this kinda stuff on a daily basis, i highly recommend calling for a catalog.

 

[Boilermaker]

Re: Replacing decking & stringers with composists??

Well thanks for all the replys!!!! I didn't think it would be SO pricey to use, and as far as special tooling for this only job, I have plenty of wood working tools, I will have enough of an outlay for the glass'n tools and grinders.<br /> <br />I couldn't agree more with the comment on making the boat float in case of a catastrophic failure, I do put my family onboard, and fish in the coastal waters with my son. I was just stating that I don't think it was a requirement when this boat was built (I think I read that rule went into effect in 1972). <br />I do plan on using as much flotation as I can get away with>>>But when I see modern 18ft'ers with 50+ gal fuel cells, and they carry enough floatation, I just figure I should be able to at least get 30gals or so below the floor on an older deep/modified vee hull. Well I'm hopin for the room anyway. Is there a formular for how much the boat weighs/displaces to how much foam is required??? Would it go by weight/displacement/hull capacity in gals of water???? NOW I'm really confused!