Resealing Lower unit

Jack Daniels

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Sep 21, 2007
Messages
266
Ok i have a 1983 FORCE 85 hp out board, i had milkey gear case oil during last winterization. I purchased the reseal kit for the lower unit, my question is, has anyone done this before and if so how hard of a task is it. I have a new impellar to put in so i have to drop the whole unit anyway. Does the lower unit actually have to be opened to reseal it properly. Once i get it open is it easy to see the orings and seals and just remove and replace with the new one. I have a manual but its at home and just want to get a feel for what im getting myself into. Thanks for the help.
 

gjm

Petty Officer 3rd Class
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Apr 19, 2006
Messages
97
Re: Resealing Lower unit

check out the first tread, step by step impeller change. should show you what you need to know.
 

Frank Acampora

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Jan 19, 2007
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12,004
Re: Resealing Lower unit

Well, Jack, you obviously already have the seal kit so you may as well go ahead and use it.

But, milky oil without the presence of free water draining does not indicate a major leak SO:

In the future, before buying a seal kit, double check to be sure that the FILL, VENT, and DRAIN plugs are tight and not leaking. Also, check the famous shift lever screw on the side of the gearcase. This screw usually has a nylon seal just like fill and vent, only smaller, and it must be VERY tight to seal properly. After verifying these are correct, then you suspect worn seals.

Re-sealing the gearcase is not difficult and should take about the same--maybe a little longer-- amount of time as changing the impeller--if it cooperates.

You must first drain and drop the lower unit. Then, behind the prop, remove the two screws and the anode. You will now see four 1/2 inch head 5/16 bolts with flat washers and small O Rings under them. Remove the bolts and replace the O Rings. Now screw some 1/4 inch all thread into the two anode screw holes and pull out the spool. This may take some doing as it tends to corrode and get stuck.--Factory recommends removing it every year in salt water use. This keeps corrosion from splitting the gearcase.

Once you get it out, there will be a large O Ring in the rear (towards prop) groove, a slightly smaller O Ring in the front groove, and a seal in back (towards prop) of the needle bearing. The rear O Ring is not critical as it merely seals the water pick-up from the negative pressure behind the prop. A little seepage here won't kill you. The front O Ring, however, does seal the oil in the lower unit as does the prop shaft seal. Replace both O Rings and the seal. Use a hook or large screwdriver to pull the old seal. Use an appropriately sized socket to drive in the new seal without damaging it. It doesn't take too much effort to drive. When you replace the spool, line it up carefully with the bolt holes before you push it in (it will be difficult to align when fully seated in place) and lubricate it well with anti-seize so it comes out easier next time. Tighten the four bolts with new O Rings to 160 inch pounds. Replace the anode.

The torpedo shaped plate under the water pump is held on with three 1/4 inch bolts--Careful, they like to snap. Remove the plate and you will see one O Ring around the center, a drive shaft seal inside the center, and another O Ring in a triangular (trapezoidal?) shaped groove at the front of the plate. All three of these seal in oil and keep out water. Check to be sure the front of the plate is not bent, compromising the front O Ring seal. Replace them then replace the plate, again being sure to use generous amounts of anti-seize on the three bolts. You can also use a bit of black silicone RTV on the front O Ring to ensure it seals well. Factory recommends replacing the "crush ring", inside the hole, that holds the bearing in place. If one came with the seal kit, use it. If not, just leave the old one alone.

The rear triangle of the plate seals the water intake passage. It has no seal, but, if you wish, you can also use a bit of black rtv here. That's it -- You're done.

BTW: Be sure to lubricate the drive shaft and prop shaft seals with lower unit oil before installing the spool and plate back on the respective shafts.

All the seals and O Rings are standard sizes and should be available at the local bearing supply store --probably for less than the marina would charge. The choice is yours.
 

Jack Daniels

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Sep 21, 2007
Messages
266
Re: Resealing Lower unit

Frank your the man, once again your pulling out the stops, thanks again. Btw, i checked the vent, fill, and drain seals, they were shot and i replaced them but still have water in oil. I got the seal kit of ebay for 30 bucks so i figured why not, i love tinkering with this thing and enjoy making sure shes working properly. Thanks again
 
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Jack Daniels

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Sep 21, 2007
Messages
266
Re: Resealing Lower unit

Ok just realized i screwed up major, frank. I went outside and drained the lower unit looking for water and their was tons. After reading your post i went to check the notirious shift linkage screw, yep you guess it, im a dumbass and drained my oil out of it last season. However, when i had the boat in the water a few weeks ago it shifted fine, I think i dodged a bullet. Ok so heres the problem, i replaced the worn vent, fill, and shiftlinkage seals with orings. Thats right, i put a oring on the **** linkage screw. Do i risk removing it and reinstalling, i obviously got lucky the first time i did it but am scared to do it again. Also i heard that the rubber orings dont properly seal the plugs causing water to get in, can the orings cause approximately half a cup of water to get in the gear case. Since i have a seal kit should i just fix the oring problem, refill and test it again before doing a whole reseal, or should i do it all to be safe. Im leaning toward resealing the whole lower unit not since i had probaly half a cup of water in the lower unit. Please let me knwo what to do with the shift linkage screw so i dont mess it up. Thanks
 

Frank Acampora

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Jan 19, 2007
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12,004
Re: Resealing Lower unit

When used properly, O Rings are excellent seals. They can withstand high pressure and misalignment. Plus with the proper compounds they also can resist heat.

At one point, OMC used O Rings in a groove under the head to seal fill and vent holes. In my opinion, they were superior to the white plastic washers.

The problem with an O Ring on the shift screw is that in order to get the screw tight enough to not work free, you must deform the O Ring too much.

If I were working on it, I would turn the lower unit on its side so the yoke should not shift, remove the screw and put on the correct seal. Then, if you still feel antsy about it, fill the screw hole with silicone rtv as a precaution.

1/2 cup of free water indicates something leaking and in my last reply I did forget to mention checking and replacing the shift rod seal. It gets a lot of abuse and tends to leak faster than the other seals. There should be no looseness in the old seal. When you press in the new one (metal side up) the shift rod should be snug yet slide smoothly through it.

As do doing the whole lower unit, you already bought the seal kit so you might as well use it--I mean, you will be dropping the lower unit anyway to replace the impeller and it's really only a little more work. Then, you canrest assured you have a solid lower unit. --At least that's my take on it.
 

Jack Daniels

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Sep 21, 2007
Messages
266
Re: Resealing Lower unit

So basically what your saying is that the new water probably is coming from another source other than the orings. Thanks frank, ill take your advice since i have to drop the unit anyway ill just turn it on the side and remove the oring from the shift linkage screw. Once again apprciate the help, and i know what ill be doing this weekend.
 

cordell

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Mar 28, 2008
Messages
308
Re: Resealing Lower unit

Ok just realized i screwed up major, frank. I went outside and drained the lower unit looking for water and their was tons. After reading your post i went to check the notirious shift linkage screw, yep you guess it, im a dumbass and drained my oil out of it last season.

I have drained my oil twice this year from this screw. Once when I bought my motor, the second after 3 outings to check the oil for water and shavings. I had a feeling what that screw was so I took care in removing and not moving the LU around while the screw was out. I drained with LU still attached and on the boat. Come the end of the year I will do the same thing. Knock on wood that if you are careful not to disturb anything, all will be fine. On a more serious note what screw should we drain from????

thanks,
cordell
 

jerryjerry05

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May 7, 2008
Messages
18,089
Re: Resealing Lower unit

On the bottom of the LU there is a hex head setscrew. You should drain from there.If you remove the shift link screw.DON"T move any thing.It can be taken out and replaced if you don't move anything.Try not to take it out(big trouble).Jerry
 

Jack Daniels

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Sep 21, 2007
Messages
266
Re: Resealing Lower unit

update and questions

Ok took off the lower unit this evening and changed the impeller, of course i snapped off one of the nuts on the pump housing but thats fixable. Do all the vains of the impellar have to be the same direction or will it straighten itself out when i fire her up for the first time?

Ok frank; I took the metal plate below the pump housing off and started to replace the O Rings, easy enough, but im having trouble removing the drive shaft seal, its all banged up so i need to get it out. Any suggestions its giving me a fit, and im trying not to use to much force becuase i dont want to bend or break the plate holding it together. Thanks for the help.
 

Frank Acampora

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Jan 19, 2007
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12,004
Re: Resealing Lower unit

I forget exactly because I don't do that many---but I believe the seal comes out the bottom. So reach in with a punch or a screwdriver and push it out with a fine adjustment tool (hammer). The seal is always bent or otherwise destroyed during removal, however, there should be enough meat on the plate to withstand removal forces. It is a double lip seal and there is a correct side to go up so pay attention to the orientation of the old one. But again, I am reasonably sure that the metal portion of the seal is the face you drive on. Again, use an appropriate sized socket or other tool to drive the seal without damaging it.

If that seal was damaged before you tried to get it out (if that's the way I read it) then it was probably the source of water. Remember: the water pump passages are directly above it. If you damaged it trying to remove it, you will never know.

Read the sticky: you turn the pump housing as you install it. This sets all the vanes in the correct direction. A NEW impeller is probably flexible enough to allow the vanes to reset direction BUT if you try that with an old impeller or if you turn the flywheel the wrong direction, you are very likely to break off at least one vane.

You did say your engine was an '83. Those lower units have 1/4 X 20 bolts holding the pump housing. You said you snapped one of the nuts. Misprint? If you have studs and nuts, either the lower unit was worked on at some point or it may be a Merc modification--I don't know--I never worked on a lower unit newer than 1989.
 

jerryjerry05

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May 7, 2008
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18,089
Re: Resealing Lower unit

New impeller will seat itself.If you have it apart change the old one out.
Grease it up good. these pump housing came in aluminum that can rot out.If it is in questionable shape buy new. Jerry
 

Jack Daniels

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
266
Re: Resealing Lower unit

Update

Well i got the drive shaft seal out with alot of banging and cursing, I basically had to cut it out with a dremel tool. Good thing is the housing is in decent shape other than a few burrs. I put the new seal in and she droped right down home. Ill relace the impeller and reseat the housing, i think ill replace it next time, its dark and looks warn but is still smooth on the inside. I just dont want to wait for another one.

Ok with as much trouble as i had with the drive shaft seal what are the odds of the prop shaft seal giving me the same heart burn. I really nervous about digging into reseal the prop portion and having the same issues as before. Is the prop shaft seal notorioius for sticking and if its stuck but looks like its in good shape should i just leave it? Thanks guys.
 

Jack Daniels

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
266
Re: Resealing Lower unit

Update

Yay, finally have her resealed. Everything went like clock work on the prop seal portion. However a few things, during the anode removal one of the screws holding it in place was out of the hole and stuck in the back of the prop. Unfourtanatly i cant pry it loose. Is it ok if the screw lives there and i just replace it, it doesnt seem to be hurting anything.

Well all i need to do is over drill the broken bolt on the water pump. Its giving me major heart burn. Any secrets that you guys have to keep the drill bit from slipping and not screwing up the lower unit plate? Also its a little nicked up already, should i just put some 3M 4200 around the bolt do ensure that no water leaks though the nicked up portion? Thanks
 

TWFisher

Seaman
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Apr 9, 2009
Messages
70
Re: Resealing Lower unit

On the bottom of the LU there is a hex head setscrew. You should drain from there.If you remove the shift link screw.DON"T move any thing.It can be taken out and replaced if you don't move anything.Try not to take it out(big trouble).Jerry

If the shift link screw is removed, what is the risk? How do you know if something inside moved, will it not screw back in?
 
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