resin research?

[john_nohj]

Hi all,

I have been looking around the net to see if i can find a cheaper alternative to west system epoxy and have come across this...

http://www.resinresearch.net/

It is being touted as surfboard epoxy so must be suitable for the marine environment, but has anyone had experience with the stuff and know how it compares to wests / other brands?

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: resin research?

Welcome to iboats.

I imagine it might work but have not heard of others using it. There are many people selling epoxy resins and even quite a few on ebay........ if you are looking for a cheaper alternative you can go with a poly resin.

What are you working on? Most regular fiberglass resins will do the same job with an entirely different smell.

 

[TitanTea]

Re: resin research?

I've been using MaxBond from Polymer Products on Ebay. I have used 3 gallons so far. So far so good. Its around 53 bucks or so a gallon. Not sure if thats cheap enough for ya.

 

[Robert4Winns]

Re: resin research?

Their prices do not appear any cheaper than US Composites, which a lot of people on here have used.

 

[mikezohsix]

Re: resin research?

Try Merton's in Springfield MA.
I think that's how you spell it.

Really nice guy, who knows his stuff.
I used the resin he sells, System 3, on my boat along with left over West System from a neighbors canoe project and couldn't tell the difference.

...and it's about a third less $

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: resin research?

I thought there was a company in NH that was cheap too???

 

[john_nohj]

Re: resin research?

i should have said to begin with that i live in england so probably cant get most of those brands you suggested.
i definatly want epoxy, not really interested in polyester, etc.

Iv had a feeling that i may be paying over the odds for the wests brand name, i mean how different can epoxy resins be? surely its the same chemical make-up?

well thanks for all your replies, im gonna go with the new stuff and see how it goes...

 

[Robert4Winns]

Re: resin research?

It looks like US Composites will ship internationally.

http://www.uscomposites.com/faq.html#15

 

[21savagefish]

Re: resin research?

Hi There,

Unless you are building a boat from the ground up with a mould do not use polyester resin.

Polyester resins do not bond to polyester / vinylester hulls.

Do not use any fillers that are designed for cars as these are also polyester based.

You can only do repair with epoxy resins and compatible fillers. You also have to be very careful of the type of matting you use as well. Chopped matt can be a big problem. Unless the supplier can confirm that the chopped matt is compatible with epoxy stay away from it. most chopped matt has a powder that is not compatible with epoxy. Best to stay with woven matt.

Don't use really heavy matt. best to use light weight and lots and lots of layers.

If you are replacing the transom you can use polyester resin and chopped matt to put between the sections of timber. But do not try and glue the transom in with polyester.

If your not sure what resin is what - Epoxy has a 2:1 resin to hardener mix .

Polyester uses an MEKP hardener and much much less and smells like a surfboard workshop.

International paints manufacture everything you need and you can get them anywhere on the planet, just visit their web site.

I rebuilt the transom my 21' Savage with a 140 merc sitting on it. 40mm thick of transom board. Lots of resin and filler powder.

I used a product called 'bote-cote'. It's an Aussie made product and even the guys at International use it. They have a web site.

Have a look around

Best of luck

Cheers

 

[ondarvr]

Re: resin research?

21 Savagefish

quote
Polyester resins do not bond to polyester / vinylester hulls.

Please explain what you know about this.

 

[21savagefish]

Re: resin research?

Hi There,

I may have given the wrong impression about polyester resins.

Let me explain

Epoxy resins are generally superior to poly and vinyl esters as they impart much more exceptonal strength in places where high stress and load are applied. They also have a higher bonding strength as well.

You also have less chance of a surface being damaged by using epoxy over ester based resins. Fillers can be added to epoxy for fairing etc where esters have to use other chemical agents to thicken the mix.

Epoxy does not like being disturbed while it is curing and you have to be reasonably acurate when mixing the hardner and the base. Epoxy also takes a little longer to layup and 'Hot mixing' is a big no-no. Epoxy resin does not generate the same amount of heat when it is curing as esters do. The exothermic reaction of ester based resins tend to give off much more heat especially if you get a little heavy handed with the hardner.

I have used polyesters to repair surfboards and canoes for the last 30 odd years and I have also used it to patch boats as well.

If you are laminating two sections of transom to make one thick piece then you can use polyester but epoxy in this application is great.

With epoxy you can add things like 'wicking' agents to help the timber absorb the resin. Something I am sure you can't do with esters.

I do know of people (lots) who have used nothing but esters for repair work and even replacing a transom with great success

If your still unsure - shop around. if you want to test the bonding ability of epoxy over ester, drop some of both on a concrete floor, wait for then to cure and see what happens when you try to get them off.

Dont forget- Polyester resin is not absolutley water proof.

Hope this helps.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: resin research?

I added my response to your post.

Hi There,

"I may have given the wrong impression about polyester resins.

Let me explain

Epoxy resins are generally superior to poly and vinyl esters as they impart much more exceptonal strength in places where high stress and load are applied. They also have a higher bonding strength as well."

Correct


"You also have less chance of a surface being damaged by using epoxy over ester based resins. Fillers can be added to epoxy for fairing etc where esters have to use other chemical agents to thicken the mix."

The same things are used to thicken both products.

"Epoxy does not like being disturbed while it is curing and you have to be reasonably acurate when mixing the hardner and the base. Epoxy also takes a little longer to layup and 'Hot mixing' is a big no-no. Epoxy resin does not generate the same amount of heat when it is curing as esters do. The exothermic reaction of ester based resins tend to give off much more heat especially if you get a little heavy handed with the hardner."

This all depends on the formulation of each product, each can be tailored to cure at just about any rate and temperature (peak exotherm). Both need the correct amount of hardener for the proper cure, you can vary it a small amount with polyester, but not much, if you do the physical properties are affected also.

"I have used polyesters to repair surfboards and canoes for the last 30 odd years and I have also used it to patch boats as well.

If you are laminating two sections of transom to make one thick piece then you can use polyester but epoxy in this application is great."

Polyester would not be the resin of choice when gluing to sheets of ply together, epoxy would be.

"With epoxy you can add things like 'wicking' agents to help the timber absorb the resin. Something I am sure you can't do with esters.

"Wicking" agents are nothing but solvents which degrade the physical properties of epoxies and reduce their water resistance."


"Dont forget- Polyester resin is not absolutley water proof."

Neither is epoxy, although it is more water resistant than polyester.

Hope this helps.

 

[jonesg]

Re: resin research?

Hi all,

I have been looking around the net to see if i can find a cheaper alternative to west system epoxy and have come across this...

http://www.resinresearch.net/

It is being touted as surfboard epoxy so must be suitable for the marine environment, but has anyone had experience with the stuff and know how it compares to wests / other brands?

Well you can go to ace hardware and buy Envirotex epoxy counter top coating and use that on surfboards too but its a poor choice for constuction.
Its self leveling and usually doesn't need rolling.

West System is premium stuff, way too rich for me.