Rubbish about "Marine" oil

K

kkj

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I made a search to find anything about gear oil and there was a lot of opinions. <br />1. Companies sometimes pretend to have their own oil to their own outboard and it costs twice as much. I guess this is rubbish. Under the label there are maybe another label, for instance "Mobil" or "Texaco".<br />2. There are oil and Marine oil. Same oil?? A way to double the price again?<br /><br />In my workshop I have:<br />Valvoline MD 80W/90 OMC type B GL 3-4-5 (for my Johnson QD-19 I guess!)<br /><br />I also have: <br />Castrol Differential oil EPX 80W/90 GL-5<br />Castrol Syntrax 75W/90<br />Texaco Geartex 80W/90 GL-5<br />Valvoline Transgear 80W/90 GL-4<br />Valvoline Transgear 80W/90 GL-4<br /><br />My guess: They are all OK for my outboard!<br />Am I wrong ?
 
CATransplant

CATransplant

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Re: Rubbish about "Marine" oil

They are not all OK for your outboard. Marine lower unit oils have additives which will help emulsify small quantities of water, in the case of a leak in the gearcase.<br /><br />Water doesn't lubricate worth a darn. An emulsion of water and oil isn't so bad.<br /><br />Use the outboard oil, please.
 
K

kkj

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Re: Rubbish about "Marine" oil

I have noticed this water emulsion additive argument but is it something the seller wants us to believe or is it a fact?<br />As a person absolutely new to the outboard world, a 100% amateur, I am allowed to make all kind of (even stupid) comments and questions. (but on the other hand, I am a technician)<br />How often can you see that water has entered the lower unit when you drain it? <br />Water has higher density then oil, so the its more likely for oil to leave the unit before the sealing is so bad the water starts to enter.
 
tommays

tommays

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Re: Rubbish about "Marine" oil

i can say that the merc syn lube holds a ton of water and keeps protecting the gears<br /><br />the good part is that it drains out well even with water<br /><br />many other oils will lube as well BUT will leave a nasty hard to drain mess in your lower unit if water gets in<br /><br /><br />tommays
 
CATransplant

CATransplant

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Re: Rubbish about "Marine" oil

Here's the thing. It's fine to be skeptical, I suppose, but this is a small matter. If the oil doesn't say it's for outboard lower units, don't use it. The difference in price is inconsequential, so why not follow the recommendations of the manufacturer?<br /><br />Water very frequently enters outboard gearboxes. It can come in through the seals at the propellor, the driveshaft, the shift rod, or even through the fill and drain holes.<br /><br />When it does, it gets churned around by the gears. Outboard lower end oil will capture a small amount of water and emulsify it. As I said, a water/oil emulsion is actually a pretty good lubricant. <br /><br />So...your gearbox doesn't lose lubrication if a little water gets into the gearbox...if you're using the correct oil.<br /><br />How often does water enter the lower unit? Depends on the age of your engine. Rarely if the engine has very few hours. Rather more often as the engine gets older. <br /><br />How do you know? Well, the only way is to drain the oil and check for water or see that the oil has the color of an emulsion of water and oil. How often do you do that? Well, generally it's once a season. So...you see...you could have been using your outboard for some time with some water in the gearcase. No harm done, because the proper oil has been used.<br /><br />Being skeptical is healthy. Being paranoid about companies trying to get more of your money isn't.<br />Don't buy the oil from your outboard manufacturer if you don't wish to. Buy a different brand, perhaps for less money. But do buy oil that is designed for use in your application.<br /><br />Or don't. It's up to you. But...if you use something else, don't complain when you must rebuild your outboard's lower end. It will not be anyone's problem but your own.
 
LubeDude

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Re: Rubbish about "Marine" oil

There "is" a difference in marine gear lubes, However, all the synthetic manufactures I have been able to talk to directly tell me that the synthetic gear lubes will meet all the requirements of a marine gear lube. Now, with that said, there are marine synthetics that are formulated to do even better. For instance, Amsoils new outdrive gear lube is claimed to lubricate with 10% water intrusion.<br /><br />Im still under the impression that you should not use a regular standard grade gear lube (Non synthetic), in an outdrive period. They may foam too much due to the tight tolerances in outdrives and you will lose the lubricating qualities of the oil.<br /><br />I dont use a marine lube, I use Amsoil 75W-90 synthetic in my 150 Merc. However, I inspect my lower unit oil more often than most. If I left my boat in the water, I would deffinatly use a marine grade lube.
 
K

kkj

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Re: Rubbish about "Marine" oil

GOOD, I just want some reasonable arguments. Sometimes there are more "believe" then "facts" <br /><br />Toyota have Toyota oil for their cars, I am quite sure they don't make any oil.
 
CATransplant

CATransplant

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Re: Rubbish about "Marine" oil

The thing is...this guy is talking about a 1958 Johnson QD-19 10 hp outboard, not an outdrive. How good are the seals? When were they replaced last? What about shaft scoring?<br /><br />How much lube does the thing hold in the first place? Half a pint? It's a silly thing. It's not enough money to talk about, so why not just use what's recommended?<br /><br />The one thing I'm certain of is that using recommended lubricants won't do your outboard any harm. Not using them might. So...why not use them?
 
CATransplant

CATransplant

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Re: Rubbish about "Marine" oil

"Toyota have Toyota oil for their cars, I am quite sure they don't make any oil. "<br /><br />You're correct. Toyota doesn't make any oil. Neither does Johnson, or Mercury, or any of the manufacturers.<br /><br />Toyota and the rest, however, DO have specifications for the lubricants to be used in their engines. If you buy the Totota branded oil, you will be certain that it meets those specifications. If you buy another oil, then you are responsible for ensuring that the oil you buy meets the specifications of the manufacturer.<br /><br />Fortunately, today, we have clearly-labeled lubricants, with clear codes to tell you the proper lubricant. If you follow those codes, you'll be fine. Or...you can buy the Toyota oil and not worry about any of that.<br /><br />Another example is the oil you mix with your outboard fuel. It won't do to use the oil designed for chainsaws in your outboard motor, even though both are 2-stroke engines. One is air-cooled, the other water-cooled. Each type has different requirements for oil. <br /><br />The same thing applies to gear oil. Your automobile will use one type. Another vehicle, perhaps with a posi-traction differential, uses a different oil. Your outboard's lower end requires still a different set of specifications. There are reasons for the differences. That is why a specific type of lubricant is specified by the manufacturer. Use something else at your own risk.
 
K

kkj

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Re: Rubbish about "Marine" oil

No, no, It's not a matter of money! I want to learn as much as possibly so my 1958 Johnson QD-19 10 hp will be safe in my hands! <br /><br />I have inspected my Johnson a little and from what I can judge it looks well done, it look like a quality item and that is something I appreciate.<br /><br />So "CATransplant" you can relax, I will use the right oil.
 
CATransplant

CATransplant

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Re: Rubbish about "Marine" oil

Good. Yes, those Johnsons built in the late 1950's are excellent machines. So many of them are still in regular use that they must be some of the best outboards ever made, at least in terms of durability.<br /><br />It is a pleasure for me to own and use a 47 year old outboard motor on my boat. It causes many questions when I am at a lake, since it runs so well and performs very well on my boat.<br /><br />Today, many people think that all things are disposable. They often express surprise that something as old as this is still useful and may, in fact, work better than their newer outboard. I have now towed several boats back to the dock with my ancient 35 hp RDS-20 Johnson. All of them had much newer outboards.
 
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Paul Moir

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Re: Rubbish about "Marine" oil

I'm about as cheap as they come. :) I use old lower unit oil in an oiler for lubricating the bit when drilling or machining things. I mix it with about 50% water to improve cooling. The emulsifiers are definitely there!<br /><br />Outboard gearcase oil is basically GL-5 (Extreme Pressure adatives (smelly) are necessary for the hypoid cut gears) with emulsifiers, as I understand it.
 
J

JRJ

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Re: Rubbish about "Marine" oil

My Suzuki Service Manual recommends "Suzuki Outboard Motor Gear Oil or SAE #90 Hypoid gear oil.
 
LubeDude

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Re: Rubbish about "Marine" oil

Originally posted by CATransplant:<br /> The thing is...this guy is talking about a 1958 Johnson QD-19 10 hp outboard, not an outdrive.
Click to expand...
Yes, "My Bad", I used the term out drive as any lower unit out drive. Same difference actually.
 
S

Scali

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Re: Rubbish about "Marine" oil

Auto gear lube will work fine untill you get some water in there then your screwed.
 
B

BillP

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Re: Rubbish about "Marine" oil

Use whatever rating the mfg says...marine or auto. I normally use marine grade but have run plenty of 90w hypoid "car" oil in old omc engines and never had a problem...it is what they were speced to use in the first place. Those lower units didn't wear out and usually lasted longer than the powerheads did. All the hype about water, etc is real nice but history says using gear oil with mfgs specifications (marine or auto) has worked with 100% reliability. 99% of lower unit problems are from lack of maintenance, not whether it is "marine" or "auto". Keep good seals in the lower unit and change the fluid once a season, you will never have a problem.<br /><br />A few comments on water in the gearcase...<br /><br />I had a 75hp omc motor that leaked so much water into the gearcase I had to change it every time out. The drive shaft kept eating the waterpump seal within hours and I had a hard time finding a good used shaft (new were obsolete). After several seal changes I decided it was an old clunker and wasn't worried about trashing it. I ran it that way for a few hundred hours and the unit didn't show wear of any type. I ended up machining the old shaft and taking the gearcase apart to see what damage was there...none.<br /><br />Another time a friend and I ran his 50hp merc up a creek and hit rocks at around 35 mph. It tore a quarter size hole in the gearcase and you could see the gears. All the lube immediately ran out and he decided to see what would happen...he ran wide open for 15 miles with zero lube except water flushing though the hole. We tore the case down and the gears were still perfect. <br /><br />Take it for whatever but people shouldn't get so hyped up lower unit lube. These motors are tougher than some realize.
 
S

Scali

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Re: Rubbish about "Marine" oil

"these motors are tougher then people realize "<br />The gear cases are, I dont know about the motors.<br />But I get the point, I've been putting off a reseal job for a while, change the gear lube every 8 times out or so, I buy the cheapest marine gear oil I can find, motor runs like a champ.. :)
 
T

Terry H

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Re: Rubbish about "Marine" oil

I happen to agree with some of these folks about not to worry. Use what you have, check the condition of the oil periodically till you feel confident that it works, then the next time you have to buy gear oil buy the marine stuff. Just my opinion. Chief ;)
 
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