SIGNS OF WEAK STARTER

mav6759

Chief Petty Officer
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Jun 25, 2007
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489
Wanted to ask a quick question...I have a Force 150hp starter, I took the starter off the motor to check the starter because the motor was spinning very slowly...After checking the batteries,the wiring and connections (all was good) the motor still spent slowly..So I tested the starter with by car battery and jumper cables (with the car running)..The Bendix spend went to the top of the starter and began sliding down while spinning.. Is this a sign of a weak starter...

Thanks,
Mav
 

Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
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Jul 23, 2011
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50,951
Most likely a sign of a bad connection or bad cable. Rarely if ever is it the starter.

You did clean all the connections with scotchbrite or 220 grit, correct?
 

mav6759

Chief Petty Officer
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Jun 25, 2007
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489
hanks for the reply...But all the wiring is new from the battery cables to the engine harness....I just took the starter apart and I noticed black dust all in the starter, thick black dust, The magnets were still intact, but were ware down...The armature was not completed rounded it had like a dip in it...And there was strong strong ammonia smell almost like urine...never smelled that before...What could that be...
 

Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
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That would be evidence that someone overheated the starter by cranking more than 30 seconds
 

mla2ofus

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Dec 30, 2008
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The starter on my 90 HP Force was doing that. Took it apart, cleaned it up, greased the front and rear bushings. Problem solved and it's been working well for 7 yrs.
Mike
 

jerryjerry05

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May 7, 2008
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18,125
Post a pic of the " ...The armature was not completed rounded it had like a dip in it."
​The grit you see is the worn down brushes.
It still conducts electricity(not much) but it's a short.
The armature needs to be shiny clean to work it's best.
Clean it up all shiny and put in new brushes and springs.

The springs get hot and can be heated enough to actually shrink and not apply enough pressure on the brush.
 

jerryjerry05

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May 7, 2008
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No Title

This starter was a working starter.
Not working good "weak"
It had gotten hot from trying to start a motor with bad compression.
The 3rd shows a cap with the springs so weak it wouldn't push the brushes out.
 

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Jiggz

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Oct 23, 2009
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The ammonia smell is sure indication the starter has overheated way beyond its heat tolerance. Follow Jerry's recommendation, put it together and if it still drags, it's time to replace it.

Or if you want to make sure it is not something binding in the powerhead or the LU, then drop the LU first and try again. If it still drags, then try removing one plug at a time and testing it in between to see if it will spin any faster. It it spun faster at any given time except when for the last plug, there could be an indication of worn rings or piston on the said cylinder.
 
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jerryjerry05

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Do a compression test FIRST.
​Don't know why I didn't say that first??

Make sure you ground the plug leads if your using the key to turn it over.
 

Derrick Fronckowiak

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Jul 15, 2015
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112
Also, as Jerry mentioned you could just replace the commutator brushes and clean everything up. There are rebuild kits available. Additionally, most of these older starters (and many of the newer) ones have "oilite" (spelling) bushings that both ends of the armature shaft slide into and rotate on (no bearings). These bushings utilize a form of dry film lubricant integrated into the bushing and that's why they don't usually have any lubrication requirement. If the bushings wear (as all things do) eventually there can/will be play on the armature shaft and that can lead to the armature making contact and rubbing on the magnets. That's one possibility. It is unlikely that a rebuild kit comes with new bushings as they are a pressed/integrated item into the commutator cap and the end cap on the other end. The other guys on the forum can confirm this, but I think you can order a rebuilt/refurbished starter (might require a core) at a reduced price. Another possibility is given that your starter sounds like it has overheated/is getting burned out, you are better off replacing it and eliminating that problem as a possibility. Starters (series wound DC motors in general) that have overheated will have had the insulation breaking down (that's the smell you said you have) on the armature, and like any conductor that overheats, the resistance is higher, which means it requires more current to do the work (Ohm's Law at work here) and thus the slow/weak rotation and torque. Given the history of your starter motor and the symptoms you just described, if it were mine I personally wouldn't second guess it and monkey around with the starter, just replace it.
 

jerryjerry05

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Hey Derrick, take a break and use paragraphs and individual sentances.
.​VERY hard to read like that.
But thanks for helping.
These starters can be rebuilt a lot
Mine are rebuilt about every 3 years and I carry a spare too.
Bendix under $20 Brushes under 15$. e-bay and this site sells parts.
P
 

Tbird33

Recruit
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Aug 1, 2016
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5
Im currently working on my started as well. Different motor (1996 force 75 hp) but I saw similar black dust. My black dust was both inside the starter and all around the outside. I finally figured out that the Bendix gear has something like a rubber bushing inside of it. Well the bushing had deteriorated over time and it got tot the point where there was so much play in it that the Bendix gear would not be thrown up high enough, only partially engaging the drive gear.

Your bendix gear should be tight and should not have any wiggle in it. I am also replacing my end cap...only 25 dollars or something like that. But I think this should get me back to almost 100%
 
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