Stainless Steel Prop

singerjr

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Messages
240
To all,<br /><br />For a mid-range O/B 70 to 125 hp (spacifically for me 115/4/EFI) what kind of performance gain can be expected from changing an aluminum prop to stainless steel.<br /><br />Better low end/hole shots?<br /><br />Better midrange?<br /><br />Better top end?<br /><br />Better ____ % overall<br /><br /> :confused: <br /><br />Thanks to all!!! ;)
 

Dhadley

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: Stainless Steel Prop

The overall performance gains will depend largely on your boat hull design. A good SS prop will allow you to mount the motor higher which will improve the overall performance. From holeshot to top end. <br /><br />Improvements also depend on where you are at now. Tell me what prop, speed and RPM you are running now and we can calculate percentage of slip and see where you are. Then we will know where you are going.<br /><br />Good luck!
 

singerjr

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Messages
240
Re: Stainless Steel Prop

Dhadley,<br /><br />New boat and motor still at the dealers having a few extras & motor installed. <br /><br />Boat: Tundra 18' w/ 8' beam formed aluminum performance deep V, 1/8" thick hull. (formed like glass but much lighter). Motor Mercury 115 HP four stroke EFI.<br /><br />I'm not a speed demon, I want good hole shots and cruising performance. 75% of the time the boat will be fished, down-riggers, trolling ect. I will frequently make 250 mile trip to honey hole and prefer a water trip rather than road.<br /><br />Mercs testing with medium load top speed 46 MPH Max RPM 5000 - 6000. Standard prop is "Pro-Torq II" have nothing else on prop, says "see dealer for Prop specs and options"<br /><br />Independent testing from two mags #1 46 to 51 MPH & #2 49 to 53 MPH. Weight for both at just over half max load (+ or -).<br /><br />I don't know if this helps in forming your opinion without ever having the boat in water. Let me know if you require more info. <br /><br />I've pretty much decided to put one on because of what I've read and seen. I want to have the boat as complete as possible before spring or warm enough for a full day shake-down-cruise!<br /><br />Of course if there are some real down sides,I will adjust my plans. Other than cost and repairing or replacing if damaged I can't see a downside. If I hit something the shear-pin will protect the motor. This will also give me a spare for just in case...<br /><br />Please do not hesitate to comment, I look forward to the education and reading your comments. Thanks Dhanley for your response I greatly appreciate it.<br /><br /> ;)
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: Stainless Steel Prop

Capt. U,<br /><br />You'll really have to get this rig out and do some testing first. It will have to broken in and preferred you load it as you normally would. Dhadley is right about getting your max. rpm and current prop. spec's before you begin to dial it in.<br /><br />Is that prop that is standard stainless now?<br /><br />Sounds like it might be!
 

Hawkeye1

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Messages
142
Re: Stainless Steel Prop

Capt ultra, The biggest gain from the SS prop will be design. There are many choices depending on applacation where with aluminum there are few designs. Shear pins are history now and they now depend on a rubber or plactic hub in the prop to absorb shock from a hit. New merc props have a self replacable plactic hub thats real attractive for emergancy repair. What props were the test done with?? I don't know much about the Pro Torq II but a Turbo, Rapture, Stiletto style SS prop usally give great performace all around.
 

Fouled Plug

Ensign
Joined
Jun 29, 2001
Messages
935
Re: Stainless Steel Prop

Capt_Ultra, a frequent 250 mile trip to your honey hole? Egads! Allow me to purchase stock in your local fuel company. :D
 

Hawkeye1

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Messages
142
Re: Stainless Steel Prop

Whats her name. Must be one good looking honey. Hope there isn't a lot of open water either.
 

mad mahi

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Oct 10, 2001
Messages
41
Re: Stainless Steel Prop

Capt. Ultra (and all)-<br /><br />Been down the same road recently. I spoke to a number of "authorities" as well as owners who made the switch. I got mixed reviews but decided not to switch to S/S. Interestingly enough, 4 "I don't recommend it" responses came from 3 dealers and one shop that does nothing but prop work! I was willing to pay and put money in these guys' pockets and they basically asked me to reconsider.<br /><br />Here's what I got from the dealers:<br /><br />The prime reasons for switching are supposedly performance and durability. <br /><br />1. DURABILITY_the experts say: If you're not frequently bottoming, durability should not be a problem. The occasional dings and dents are easily corrected on an aluminum prop if it is properly reconditioned.<br />2.PERFORMANCE- the experts say:The reason that S/S "seems" to increase performance is that these props do not flex as much as alum when under load. Flexing effectively changes prop pitch as RPM increases which has an impact on the performance curve. Most conversions to S/S props require a different prop pitch than the aluminum prop, IF THE SWAP IS TO BE DONE CORRECTLY! It is usually more complex than just slapping on a S/S prop of the same diameter and pitch. Also, flexing occurs to a greater extent on the larger diameter props so there are less performance gains on props under 14" in diameter. Every boat and motor combo has different running characteristics (already stated by others). MOST boats will exhibit an increase in performance in some way while losing something somewhere (eg. hole shots might improve while WOT rpm decreases). It is rare for a boat to see improvements in all areas. As already mentioned, you got to keep the motor running as close to factory RPM specs under most conditions!<br /><br />REASONS NOT TO SWAP: The experts say: Weight is an enemy to boats in any form. S/S props will weigh nearly 2.5 times as much as alum. Not really all that much until you consider what happens when you put an idling motor in gear. The motor and related gear train (lower unit) is constantly in motion even in idle. When you put it in gear, the motor is now attempting to move a stationary prop through the engagement of a clutch mechanism. It takes more force to start spinning a heavier prop resulting in greater torque and stress place upon the clutch, clutch dogs and bearings. Inreased wear and tear is the result.<br /><br />Likewise, a heavier prop will spin longer once the motor is put in neutral. When docking or maneuvering in tight areas, you are going to have the heavier prop spin faster and longer in the direction that it was turning. This will still generate thrust in that direction, possibly causing you to overshoot. But what about if that prop is rotating forward and you need to suddenly back down? A lot more stress will be placed on the gear train trying to stop, and reverse the heavier prop. <br /><br />COST- the experts say: The S/S is obviously more costly to install, overall benefits might not justify the cost particularly if you increase the incidence of gear train maintenance/repair.<br /><br /><br />When I spoke to boat owners that made the swap, I basically got positive reponses. BUT no one was able to actually give me "before and after" stats. The responses were along the lines of "it feels quicker", "I think I'm using less fuel", "Steering feels more responsive", etc. Nothing that anyone could actuallly identify and point to.<br /><br />It is important to understand that a swap neeeds to be thought out and a lot needs be taken into consideration. S/S has its positives and negatives just like any other modification or enhancement.<br /><br />After digesting these tidbits from the guys who do this for a living, I decided to keep my stock in ALCOA!<br /><br />I hope this helps!<br /><br />big e<br /><br /><br />TSLTW
 

SeaDawg

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 3, 2001
Messages
418
Re: Stainless Steel Prop

Big e, I partially agree with you. Here's my "on the water, been there, done that" results.<br /><br />In the early 1990's I commercial hook & line fished for 2 years. I had a 19 pitch alum. on my boat, and then bought a 17 pitch SS for it. Put over 1000 running hours between the props, about 300 on the alum and the rest on the SS.<br /><br />I loved the SS prop. Weight is not always your enemy. The SS prop acted like a flywheel in a car, and REALLY smoothed out the engine vibrations of a 125 Force 2-stroke. I could troll down to idle perfectly with NO boat vibration. Forget it with the alum. prop. And I got better fuel economy, better top speed too, and I hit DE bay shoals and dredging pipes(lightly, at night mostly) a few times, and never suffered any lower unit/prop damage.<br /><br />So, I felt the engine was getting less stress. And it didn't seem to bother it for shifting either.<br /><br /><br />This weekend, I'm setting up another boat, and I'm working with a prop shop to get a USED SS prop ($150). The prop dealer is going with me, and bringing the 3 (different pitches) props that we calculate we need. I'll end up buying the one that is best for my boat.
 

Hawkeye1

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Messages
142
Re: Stainless Steel Prop

Those dealers and prop shops that did not recommend a ss prop were going to make 2x the money off the yearly or bi monthly repairs and replacement on the Aluminum prop. It don't take much to damage a al prop. I have been running SS props on Ob for over 25 years at 200 to 400 hrs a year and have hit pleanty of crap and shoals. Dinged up a few, knocked off a little skeg but never caused any Lower unit damage internaly ever. I have never even had a seal go bad in the lower units running ss props. Knock on wood. I do know there are many more designs of blades on SS vrs Al and they tend to out preform al in many was. I did run a al prop from 1976 to 1977 but tore it up and tosed it for a ss. The ss gave me better top end and cruise, couldn't really tell about the hole shot.
 

mad mahi

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Oct 10, 2001
Messages
41
Re: Stainless Steel Prop

Seadawg, Hawkeye-<br /><br />I am in no position to debate what you 2 have actually experienced since I am in the same "boat" as Capt Ultra. My comments were based purely on feed back from others, not first hand experiences or tests. I'm sure that Capt Ultra will appreciate your replies as I do (believe me, I filed this data away to be retrieved some time in the future).<br /><br />I guess it shows what seems to be holding true in all comments that have appeared so far. The lesson is that each boat/motor combo will show different effects and probably the best method is to test before committing.<br /><br />Hawkeye, I probably will rethink S/S the first time I have to have an alum reconditioned or replaced. Seadawg, you obviously reaped an additional benefit from S/S that was not brought up. Now I will play devil's advicate and ask if you ever tried to have the aluminum prop balanced? <br /><br />Capt Ultra- As if you don't have enough to ponder, have you considered a 4 blade alum?<br /><br />Two owners by me switched and have been able to identify quicker hole shots and better cornering at speed with a 4 blade alum. They both admit to losing about 2-3 mph (as per GPS) at the top end but only a loss of about 100 RPM.<br /><br />Also, consider trying several props. I don't know what shops are available to you, but near me there are 2 that will let you demo props as long if you leave a suitable deposit! Might be the ideal situation for you!<br /><br />By all means though, wait until you break in the motor and load up to simulate your typical cruising weight.<br /><br />Maybe my ALCOA stock just took a little loss (LOL)!<br /><br />big e<br /><br />TSLTW
 

SeaDawg

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 3, 2001
Messages
418
Re: Stainless Steel Prop

Big e, more to the story. There was no problem with my original alum prop, in fact the paint never wore off the blades. It did not vibrate, it just was not the best prop for my particular needs.<br /><br />When I went to get the stainless prop, I made friends with the service dept. manager where I bought the boat from, and we took both alum and SS props out to test them on my boat.<br /><br />All of the shop alum props would allow the 2 stroke to "jerk" at idle RPMs, with the boat in forward gear, like you do when trolling slowly. But, the heavier SS props would "counterbalance" the engine, just like the 4-stroke motors do now internally.<br /><br />Again, just my 2 cents worth, there's obviously a place for both styles, and there are a ton of both sold every year.<br /><br />The main thing is to get the right pitch prop for your boat, for any style. And, testing them out on the water is just about the only real way to do it. Formulas will get you close, but you have to have rpm and speed data from the boat to make it all work out.
 

Dhadley

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: Stainless Steel Prop

A very interesting thread. It's good to hear all the views. <br /><br />One thing to keep in mind when comparing different style props, especially 4 blade ones, is the X dimension. 4 blade props are designed to run at a higher X dimension. If you are running a 3 blade and are at or near optimum efficiency and simply bolt on a 4 blade (of similar design and / or technology) you will indeed most likely suffer a decrease in performance. <br /><br />Just something to think about.
 

jdenton

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jun 6, 2001
Messages
47
Re: Stainless Steel Prop

I bought a 94 Ranger 481vs (19.5' x 92" beam) with Merc 150XRi last year. This is my first boat. It has a 5 blade high five s/s prop on it. It has great holes shot and runs 64mph @5400. I am very happy with this performance. Can anyone explain what advantage or disadvantage this 5 blade prop has. This is the only 5 blade prop I have seen out on the lakes. Thanks for any info.
 

singerjr

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Messages
240
Re: Stainless Steel Prop

To all,<br /><br />It would be difficult to mention everyone individually and their very valid, usefull advice. I will heed to your warnings and wait.<br /><br />Just know that I've copied this entire thread and put it in my PC boat toolbox. There is a lot here that I will want to revisit say about mid summer when I've got the boat all broken in and first service is done qand I am at home with the boat.<br /><br />Fouled Plug and Hawkeye, you guys had me laughing outloud my wife thought I was nuts sitting in a quiet room laughing my "A" off. LMAO<br /><br />It's really not exactly a honey hole I have family right on the water about 250 miles from where I put boat in. It is the greatest ride!!!!!! Get there take a nap and than fish all night at one of the best stripper spots I've ever seen, bar none enen the faken I mean fishin shows.<br /><br />So thanks to all you came through for me again. I'll have an extra filet on the grill for you this summer, try and be on time. ;)
 

Fouled Plug

Ensign
Joined
Jun 29, 2001
Messages
935
Re: Stainless Steel Prop

Capt Ultra, fishing at a 'stripper spot' sounds like it would indeed be worth the drive. I'm packin' my bags, and buying a ticket down to your neck of the woods! YeeHaaa! :D
 

495v

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 13, 2002
Messages
432
Re: Stainless Steel Prop

I don't know about worth the drive. 250 miles at 45 mph is 5.5 hrs. I sure hope your Tundra gets up and goes. You know, if you got yourself an Allison you could make it in 2.5 hrs. I'm not an Allison owner but I've read some articles about those boats reaching speeds of 103mph. Thats exactly what you need. Hey, I guess whatever floats your boat, right?<br />ps Out of curiosity, how long does it take you and what kind of fuel do you consume?
 

singerjr

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Messages
240
Re: Stainless Steel Prop

The fouled part is right, you gotta cut me some slack I was typing while laughing. As I am now!<br /><br />Where do you do standup?<br /><br />Stripers stripers stripers x 100, you know what would be funny if I edited my post took out one p everyone would wonder what the "H" is FP talking about. "You know that Fouled Plug is ok but he's a little off some times" <br /><br />See ya, oh there will be one less stripper fillit on the barbe this summer ;)
 

singerjr

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Messages
240
Re: Stainless Steel Prop

495v,<br /><br />Takes konger than 5 hours too. This isn't a day or even two day round triper most times it was three. It's just something we've done for many years<br /><br />I haven't done it in years my current boat wouldn't do it more truthfuly I wouldn't do it in my current boat. I'll give it a try in the Tundra see how it goes, I'll let you know about gas and time ect...in the new boat, may only do it once.<br /><br />Years ago I had bigger and faster boats and we would make a day of it. Start at daybreak or before, crruise at a good pace stopping for a little something to eat. Troll a bit along the way.<br /><br />Once there take a LITTLE nap and we were up for all night fishing or untill someone fell out the boat from fatigue. Sleep most of next day. In the evening a family fish fry.<br /><br />Only did this a few times a year but it was a REAL FISHING TRIP!!! A great way to spend a three day weekend. (It's actually closer to 200 mi).<br /><br />In the past few years I drove down in the truck. It just wasn't the same!!! ;)
 

BBogey

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Aug 4, 2001
Messages
140
Re: Stainless Steel Prop

WOW, once again I'm dazzled by all the knowledge on this site! I really enjoyed reading all that! LOL, even a motor dork like myself is likely to learn something if I keep visiting this site! :D <br /><br />Keep up the good work!
 
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