Start - Restart Problem

['83Crestliner]

I really feel stupid because this is probably a problem i should not be getting myself in. I have a 84' 115 hp Evinrude have had this problem twice now. I get the boat on the ramp and ready to launch, and start the motor. The first time around no real issue and the motor starts up just fine. I then find myself in a situation where i have to turn the motor off (both times within 3mins from the first start). When i go to start the motor again i cannot. There is smoke and clearly fuel mix coming out in the water. The first time this happened it took about 10mins for me to get it going again, and the second time i gave up. Is this just a matter of it getting flooded? If so what is the best thing to do?

Other than this the motor is running fine with the exception of one issue that is unrelated.

Thanks for the help!

 

[5150abf]

Re: Start - Restart Problem

Do you follow your cold start routine again, if so you probably shouldn't, after running for a couple minutes the engine should be warm and just start with the key, if you are choking it you may be flooding it.

Maybe try it with just the advance and no choke and if it doesn't go just tap the choke.

If the engine is running at a high idle when you shut it down it will suck some unburned gas in so it is sort of pre choked.

Without knowing your starting procedure it is hard to offer tips, maybe post exactly how you start and restart the engine.

 

['83Crestliner]

Re: Start - Restart Problem

Hey 5150abf - thanks for the feedback.

Just before i go to start the motor with the key i go back and prime the fuel bulb till it is giving me tension back. I then go to start the motor with the key. I will turn the key without pushing in the choke (pressing in the choke with the key) and if it does not turn over then i bring the key back to the start position and push the choke quickly once and try to turn it over again. By this time it will usually start up. I will run it in quick idle for a minute or two before bringing the lever back down to the run position. At that point, i have found myself having to turn the motor off. Thats when i am unable to get it started again and there is a lot of unburned gas coming out in the water when i am trying to restart it and it just does not want to turn over.

You make a good point because i would say that the motor is being shut down within a minute or so of having it in quick idle for at least a minute +.

I suspect flooding, but just want to make sure. And maybe get some tips as to how to deal with that when it happens. Should i just not try to turn it over for a certain amount of time? Or perhaps keep trying to turn it over instead of just waiting.

Thanks again.

 

[lmuss53]

Re: Start - Restart Problem

When starting a warm engine you suspect flooding on, move the high idle lever until it is advanced all the way, crank with no choke/primer at all. I read that in the manual for a '96 Merc 90 I used to own and it's worked for me on that merc and several OMC's I've owned since then.

I must admit it worked better on the mercs because you can pop the controller into nuetral and open the throttle up all the way on them, but it will get the excess gas out of your OMC and let it start.

Be prepared to slow it down quick when it starts, you don't want to free rev any outboard in nuetral.

 

[garzilla]

Re: Start - Restart Problem

Uncle had the same problem, he'd just leave the boat there full throttle, go move his truck, come back, move it back to idle, bump the key, and away he went.......said leaving the throttle wide open would dry up excess fuel.

 

['83Crestliner]

Re: Start - Restart Problem

Man- I have to tell you my butt's chapped. So, this issue cropped up yesterday when trying to get the boat out. I managed to get some free time today to get it back out and see if it would run. Go to launch it, did not even try to prime the fuel bulb and it does not go. I go to the back notice the bulb was weak, pumped it twice and went on to start it. Sucker starts right up nice and strong (a lot of smoke though). I keep it in the fast idle position for a minute and proceed to drop the latch to the run position. When i do, the motor stalls out. I tell you, i started it up at least ten times and evertime i clicked the lever back into the run position it stalled. Some of the times it took a little bit for it to stall, but once the lever was brought down to run the motor wanted to die. A couple of times i popped the lever back up to fast idle or even the start position and the motor would pick up again and regain power. I would say that 60+% of the time i restarted the motor it was pretty smokey.

When i get back to the house i put the muffs on it and proceed to start it up. It did not start right up, but after priming the bulb and applying some choke it starts up. I let it sit for a minute in fast idle, drop the lever to the run position and the sucker holds strong!!!

The only real difference there was from when i was at the launch ramp from when i had the muffs on at home was that at the ramp i had the trim completely down whereas when i was at home the trim was only about halfway up closer to the high side. This and the fact that when i was at the lake i did not have to apply any choke to get the motor started. Other than these two factors i did everything identical. Could the angle of the motor in the water make it die, after its been started and putting the lever down into the run position?

I really don't think there is anything serious going on here, but i have no lost two outing.

Has anyone had a situation like this? Could it be that the motor was trimmed to far down giving it a bad angle to start? (I mention the trim because with the same motor i have had the motor die when the trim is too high and i try to reverse.

thanks.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Start - Restart Problem

It would appear you need some carburetor work, idle speed adjustment, and/or a complete link & sync, change of plugs, or in otherwords -- a good tune up. And just so you know, turning the key off and then pushing it (priming) does nothing. Also understand that the engine does not have a choke -- it has a primer. In order for the primer to work there needs to be pressure in the fuel line. Once the engine has started, fuel is SUCKED through the fuel line -- the fuel line is not pressurized at that time. If the float in one or more of the carbs is set wrong, or if the needle and seat in one or more carbs is not sealing properly, excess fuel can flow into the float bowl thus flooding the engine. If you intend to work on this engine yourself, it is suggested you start by obtaining a factory service manual for your specific engine. It contains all of the troubleshooting info you need and will save you a bunch of time and hopefully prevent you from making a very costly mistake. Two stroke fuel systems are responsible for many of the engine failures due to overly lean operation.

 

['83Crestliner]

Re: Start - Restart Problem

Silvertip-thanks for the feedback. I managed to get her out this afternoon. I figured i would hook the muffs up to the motor and crank it before i left. I it did start up and it idled well, and when i got to the lake she did the same.

I think you may be right about the carbs. The compression is 115 - 120 on the four. I changed the spark plugs about three weeks ago, i looked over the ignition system and everthing looked ok. I just changed the fuel pump last week due to a power loss issue i was having when running the motor for more than about 40mins. I was prompted to change the fuel pump because when i had the loss of power i when back and pumped the fuel priming bulb and power would come back. When i went out this afternoon the power loss issue happen again, but in a different way. When running i started to have the loss of power again, but it would then just come back again. this is without me doing anything. Priming by pressing the key in a couple of times in a row in short bursts seemed to help a bit. Do you think the issue could be connected?

I somehow think it is fuel connected. I think the fuel might have not been mixed properly and there is still a portion of that fuel in the tank. Is that possible?

thanks again

 

[lmuss53]

Re: Start - Restart Problem

'83, get a 6 gallon can and mix up a batch of known good fuel, and try running the boat on that. If that fixes it get rid of the fuel in the tank and start fresh. I would run the tank fuel through a beater car or truck.

If that doesn't fix the issues you are having go ahead and rebuild your carbs, it's not hard. I bought the Sierra kits, and a FACTORY MANUAL, watched a youtube video, and tore into mine. The only adjustment is the float level and that's easy, all the other stuff is factory set and you can't goof it up if you get everything clean and keep it where it belongs. It takes about a good afternoon and when you are done you will know that they are not the problem.

If you know you are getting fuel to the carbs now and it's not getting to the cylinders you know something is wrong in the carb. Remember when a cylinder is not firing from lack of fuel it is also not getting lubed by that mix on it's way to the cylinder.

PS, I love Crestliner boats, I bought a 1750 Sportfish I/O in 1995 and enjoyed every minute I spent on it, I wish I had it here today.

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: Start - Restart Problem

You could have an issue with the airbox drain system-stemming from a fuel carb problem. You can test this theory by pulling off the airbox cover and watching what is going on. If the carbs leak any fuel/oil when running, it will collect at the bottom of the airbox and get recirculated into the bottom cylinder. This is normal. A small amount of fuel is not unusual, esp if you tilt the engine, say for trolling. If you get a larger fuel accumulation, (perhaps from incorrect float heights) the fuel will drain down into the airbox, get recirculated into the bottom cylinder and it will flood that bottom cylinder and the engine will be hard to start. You may see a difference between the first cold start and the second start. Also, verify that the red lever on the fuel primer solenoid is in the correct postion.

 

['83Crestliner]

Re: Start - Restart Problem

Imuss- ithink you may be right regarding the carbs. I have Clymers shop manual, however i have seen others. I heard the Clymers was the best one is that true? I have only had the boat for over a month now and am trying to figure everything out. It seems like i have been able to work through the start problem, but still dealing with this power loss issue.

emdsapmgr- i started this post due to another issues as stated in the title of the post. You have been helping me out with the power loss issue on the other post i had originally made. i am doing my best to bring in all possibilities to save time and money. As i mentioned on this thread that it seems that the power loss issue is still there, just a little different. I see where you mentioned that fuel/oil could be leaking from the carb down to the airbox. Well, i can tell you that since i purchased the boat i have noticed a lot of black fluid leaking. It is not coming from the lower unit and it obviously seems to be the unspent fuel/oil. Ever since i changed the plugs (that were all wrong to begin with) it has gotten better, maybe i will see a drip or two, but before it was pretty bad. Do you think this could leaking makes your point more relevent? I can say for sure that at least one time i know of the fuel was not mixed properly. i would say about 5 gallons where they went and put 87 octane gas in the tank first with out any oil mixture. drove it down to the lake and then at the last minute before launching the boat they poured the (suppossed proper amount) oil into the gas tank. Could that kind of improper fuel mixing cause this loss of power, keeping in mind all the other posts i have made??

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Start - Restart Problem

You are getting very vague about fuel, fuel mixing, incorrect ratio etc. Yes - incorrect amount of oil in the fuel can cause a lean condition. If you've corrected that then it has nothing to do with starting or power. Have you actually checked the fuel tank to ensure the fuel is getting to the engine. Try a small portable tank as was suggested. Also understand that you own a two stroke motor. Exhaust is a bit oily on them and they will drip a little. If the power loss you discribe now is such that the engine bogs down, then picks up, then bogs, then picks up, it is a fuel delivery problem. Do the simple stuff first starting at the tank. PROVE TO YOURSELF that the tank pickup is not clogged. Prove that the fuel line and primer bulb are ok. Prove that the fuel pump is working properly. As the engine begins to die and if squeezing the primer bulb causes it to pick up. you have a fuel delivery problem.

 

['83Crestliner]

Re: Start - Restart Problem

Silver- i understand what you are saying. I am sorry if i was vague.

The incorrect fuel mixing as mentioned in the last post of mine would still be in the tank. Even though i have added the correct ratio and mixed the fuel properly I think that there is still an inproper mixed gas/oil left in the tank. Whether that could cause the motor to bog down and then pick up again is one of my questions. when i first post my power loss issue i had not changed my fuel pump, and before i did change my fuel pump when i had the power loss problem when i pumped the fuel bulb power was regained, but only for a short period. Now, that i have changed my fuel pump, I am getting the bog down then pick up in power. Trying to pump the fuel bulb is not doing anything, but priming with the key did help some. I hope i have stated that clearer. Nevertheless, i feel that i ahve gotten enough feedback to start looking into some of the potential issues mentioned be yourself and others.
thanks.

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: Start - Restart Problem

If you have inadequate fuel delivery or a weak pump you can verify that by constantly priming the fuel hose bulb. If the engine runs better while constantly priming that confirms that problem. If you find the engine runs better when you push in on the key to activate the cold start primer, you may have a fuel restriction in one (or more) carb jets-which can't be overcome by priming the hose bulb. Will the engine run normally at top end? That says a lot about the high speed jets.

 

[lmuss53]

Re: Start - Restart Problem

I'll ad that I would not stress about 5 gallons of gas that got a pint of tcw3 oil dumped in it at the launch, especially if it was all in a tank with 10 or so gallons of properly mixed fuel. It's all mixed together now and probably did no harm.

My 90 is real similar to your 115 and it had a lot of the same problems when I first got it, the right plugs, new fuel pump and carb rebuilds got me all straightened out.

The consensus around here is that the OMC factory repair manual is the best one to have.

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: Start - Restart Problem

It is not unusual for a black, tarry substance to drip out of the lower unit. That is the unburned fuel/oil, common to all older two strokes. This situation can worsen for a couple of reasons: if the thermostats are stuck open, the engine will run cool, causing poor combustion-contributing to more unburned residue. If the fuel oil mixture has too much oil-it will cause more oily dripping. While not an immediate problem, it can be in the long term. Excess oiling can cause excessive carbon accumlation around the rings and on the piston skirts-possibly leading to reduced engine durability. If you have a fouled or non-firing (missing) spark plug, that can also increase the unburned fuel/oil situation-dripping.

 

['83Crestliner]

Re: Start - Restart Problem

Carbs were in dirty. Real dirty! Carb jets were restricted, one worse than the other. Looking to take her out in the next day or two and find out if that fixes the issue. I will let you know happens

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: Start - Restart Problem

If it's as bad as you say, the engine should run like a brand new rig after the carb overhauls!

 

['83Crestliner]

Re: Start - Restart Problem

Well, i got it out on the water this afternoon and it ran like a champ!
Nice to finally have it solved. I kept waiting for the power to give and lose rpms, but it never happened. I feel a lot better about my purchase now and must say was getting worried. I wasn't going to let the problem ride into next year without figuring it out. I guess i can start getting to winterizing it now. That will be a whole other post i guess. Would like to get a bullet point kind of list of things i need to do to properly get it done.

Imuss, we ended up going through the same sequence of steps to get the motor right. Plugs, fuel pump, rebuild carbs - problem solved.