Stingray 185 LX (2006) Rear Seat Removal

[dzignr_tastz]

Anyone ever done it to gain better access to the impleller/pump area? If so, any tips before I just go yanking any visible screws? Does just the back come out, or does the bottom have to come with it? Either way, do any of the side panals have to go, too?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Maclin]

deleted by author

 

[jbcurt00]

Lets start over. Enough is enough, ok fellas?

If you need help w a boat/motor question, the more info you can post the better.

I've heard of Stingray boats, but dont know what motor it may or may not have in it. Beyond its likely to be an I/O.

You asked about an impeller in the original question, and for many (most?) I/O, that would be for cooling and in the exterior outdrive, not on the interior of the boat.

So, can we please stay on track and not digress into the previous back and forth.

Thank you to all.

 

[oldjeep]

I'd be pretty surprised if the rear seat was easy to remove. Most of the upholstry projects I've seen the bak seat goes in like a puzzle with lots of hidden fasteners. Changing th impeller in my boat is a bit of a pain too, although mine faces the transom since I have a vdrive.

 

[oldjeep]

One of the deleted posts already covered that it is a Volvo and the impeller on those is in the engine compartment.

 

[oldjeep]

If you want to make the job easier, consider buying a puller.
http://www.iboats.com/Stainless-Imp...mp_mt=&pdv=m&gclid=CKPovfb3j8YCFQyqaQodWSEAsw

 

[jbcurt00]

One of the deleted posts already covered that it is a Volvo and the impeller on those is in the engine compartment.

Which the OP never confirmed, specifically, so I edited Maclins post to be a question.

If not helpful to the original question of seat/impeller removal/replacement, please refrain from commenting. Thank you

 

[dzignr_tastz]

It is a Volvo (3.0 GLP-D 4-cylinder), and the impeller (which I've changed out before) housing sits directly, with only a couple inches of clearance at best, behind the back seat, and I'm speculating the bearing seal is bad and it's leaking through the weep hole, causing the dreaded belt spray that several other owners on here have experienced and started threads about (mostly on larger V8s, but it's the same pump on many models). Luckily, it's freshwater versus salt covering my compartment! I'm just contemplating removing the rear seat (if it's not major surgery, that is) to help verify it's actually the weep hole leaking, and if so, ultimately provide some much desired working space before ordering a new $10 seal (and possibly $35 bearing) to service the supposedly "unserviceable" pump versus dropping $350 on a new one.

And I wasn't realy looking for general speculation, although any recounts of removing any rear bench seat could be helpful. I'm golden on the engine from there (which is why the engine doesn't really matter, but just the seat). I was just curious if anyone had ever specifically pulled one from an LX model, which is what designates the seat configuration, although I knew the chances and replies might be slim. There's no Google results, after all! If not, I'll just use my better judgement and remove any visible screws until it either comes out or doesn't, as I'm not removing carpet or taking the chance on breaking hidden panel clips to accomplish it. I'll just work around it again as best I can if necessary.

And thanks for the link, oldjeep, but swapping the impeller itself (which I already have here, along with an oil filter, plugs, pump, and gear lube... you know, all that "routine maintenance" stuff I was going to do before I discovered the pump issue) isn't a problem, and I have an old 3-arm gear puller that'll hopefully do a fine job of pulling the bearing housing off the shaft, assuming I even have to go that far and it's not just the seal. It's only been run once on muffs this year, which is when the leak was discovered, so it's possible the bearing is OK. Might just replace it as well for good measure, though.

 

[jbcurt00]

Hope it all goes well, I'm sure w out the seat in the way, it'll be easier

Good luck

 

[oldjeep]

Ah. Ok. Why not just remove the pump and work on it outside the engine compartment? 3 Allen screws to get it off the crank, 1bracket bolt and 2 hoses. Looks identical to the pump they use on my boat.

 

[dzignr_tastz]

Hope it all goes well, I'm sure w out the seat in the way, it'll be easier

Good luck

Thanks. That's what I'm hoping for, as the impeller alone with it in is a task for even a well-trained contortionist!

And thanks for the clean up. Sorry if I stepped on any toes beforehand.

 

[dzignr_tastz]

Ah. Ok. Why not just remove the pump and work on it outside the engine compartment? 3 Allen screws to get it off the crank, 1bracket bolt and 2 hoses. Looks identical to the pump they use on my boat.

You know... that might not be too bad, leaving the impeller housing bolted on until the entire pump is off. Might have a little more clearance to get at the 3 allen head bolts as they're a little further back. You have to loosen the serp belt, too, right?

But my primary concern is verifying where the water is coming from, and there's just so little room to see to tell, even upside down with a compact mirror. I'm just assuming the weep hole, but it could always just be the impeller o-ring as well, which will be replaced with the impeller regardless. Just trying to not throw money at parts I don't need and want to be sure before I tear it down and order them. Might try to hook up the muffs again later now that the engine's dry and see if I can tell exactly where it's coming from, without the engine running. It should hopefully find it's way out of wherever under positive pressure...

 

[oldjeep]

Yes, you would loosen the belt.

Might be worth borrowing/renting an inspection camera if you are wanting to makes sure where the water I coming from.

My dad has an inexpensive one with about a 3ft reach that works fairly well for tight areas. I'd imagine a tool rental place should have them.

 

[dzignr_tastz]

Yes, you would loosen the belt.

Might be worth borrowing/renting an inspection camera if you are wanting to makes sure where the water I coming from.

My dad has an inexpensive one with about a 3ft reach that works fairly well for tight areas. I'd imagine a tool rental place should have them.

Figured that was a given with the pulley coming off. Didn't even consider a colonoscopy for my boat, though - LOL! And here i thought the Selfie Stick was an original idea. Might be worth a shot... or a telescoping mirror, which I was sitting here contemplating. Then again, either might be about the same price as just buying a seal and swapping it out when I do the impeller.

And yeah - that was pointless. Dry as a bone without the engine running, which kind of leads me to believe it's not the impeller housing gasket, but the seal for the bearing cavity, and unless the crankshaft is turning, it's not leaking. So does anyone know if the crankshaft spins in the seal, or does the seal turn with the crankshaft and spin in the inner bearing race? Thing is (as I said before), I haven't put it in the water since I discovered the belt spray on the muffs, and while I've never noticed it before this year while on them, the pump is under constant pressure while on the hose as opposed to water being drawn in by the impeller while in the water, so maybe the extra pressure is just pushing by the bearing seal on muffs whereas it wouldn't be an issue in the water? Only one way to test that theory, I guess...

So? Go buy a telescoping mirror, or rent or buy a camera (they have a basic 10' USB cable one on Amazon for $15), and see if I can tell where the leak is coming from while the engine is running with that... drag her 2 miles to the river, see what it does in the water, and decide from there... or just buy the seal, and maybe bearing (gotta swap the impeller anyway) and replace it all, regardless. WWYD?


EDIT: Nevermind. I'd guess the shaft, seal, and inner race all turn and the outer race stays with the housing. Dunno what I was thinking...


EDIT (again): Or not? After looking at these eBay pump pics again, I'm going to assume the guide washer sits in the inner bearing race, the seal is on the entire outside of the assembly, and the crankshaft turns in it... which might make sense why it only leaks when the engine is running. Might be worth dropping it in the water if it's not leaking past it at all times, just to see if it does it under suction versus pressure...

 

[oldjeep]

What would I do? I'd go the inspection camera route before pulling the pump apart, could even be just a loose hose clamp. As for how it all goes together internally - don't know.. I've replaced one (On an inboard v8) before but never rebuilt one. I assume that yours is just a standard Johnson FB6 pump or could be swapped to one. That is the pump used on most engines I've seen that have a crank driven pump. They run $150-$200 on the open market.

http://www.marineenginedirect.com/jo...mp-10-24915-1/

 

[oldjeep]

Ah - looks like the 3.0L you have uses one that is integrated with the pulley, that is different than the ones I'm familiar with. Cheapest one I could find was $199
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/141648382158?lpid=82&chn=ps

 

[dzignr_tastz]

Ah - looks like the 3.0L you have uses one that is integrated with the pulley, that is different than the ones I'm familiar with. Cheapest one I could find was $199
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/141648382158?lpid=82&chn=ps

Yup. That's the ticket, and thus why I have to loosen the belt. But worst case, I'm not gonna pay $200 for a rebuilt one when I can rebuild it myself for a quarter of the cost.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Volvo-Penta...596-3858229-/291234399947?hash=item43ceec46cb

And with the design of mine, I don't think a hose would drip on the pulley (thus spraying it off the belt)... just straight into the bilge. The impeller housing o-ring might, but the weep hole is definitely aligned right with the outer edge of the pulley. And looking at that disassembled shaft is what makes me think the crankshaft turns in the seal. It's mighty shiny above that "guide washer" (which Volvo does have listed as an individual part for my pump assembly), so I'm pretty sure it fits up inside the inner race of the bearing, and the shiny area above it is from friction with the seal.

And that's the thing. If it's just the seal that's leaking, it's right there and exposed once I take off the impeller housing to swap the impeller out, so for $10 (versus buying or possibly paying to rent a camera and/or mirror), I could just swap it and hope the bearing hasn't had so much water in it it's shot. Worst case, I have to disconnect the impeller housing, pull the bearing assembly, and swap just the bearing (or bearing and seal again) out at a later date.

 

[dzignr_tastz]

Well I said screw it and just opted to work around the seat again. It really wasn't as bad as I remember, and once I got the impeller housing off I could tell there was a hitch or two in the bearing when spinning the assembly so I just went ahead and ordered a bearing and seal kit (foregoing the "leak inspection"), swapped them out regardless, and primered and painted the outer edge of the pulley where some corrosion had occurred. There was definitely a big difference between the old and new bearings, and for under $90 in parts (I grabbed a full SS kit with another impeller and replacement bolts as well) and paint, the belt spray problem is fixed, she looks like new, and I should now even be good in salt if I drag her to the beach later this season!

Side note - Rustoleum Farm Equipment red from Auto Zone is almost a perfect match for VP engine red, and should be pretty durable for the environment. $7 for a can, and I figure I'll use the rest on one implement or another.

Thanks, oldjeep, for the brainstorming session (love the Jeep website and restores, BTW; got a '98 XJ Classic myself, which is my primary hauler, and which I also just replaced most of the cooling system on as well - LOL), and also to the guys who put together kits in the first place to service these "unserviceable" VP raw water pumps. Looks like most of the parts are pretty standard, and interchangeable with the Johnson pumps, but it definitely took some of the legwork out of it.