stress cracks

[handball]

I have a 1987 sea ray weekender with twin 350 mercruisers, the boat is in great shape except for the following: where the starboard exhaust exits the boat there is a number of stress cracks in the jell coat that look about 1/32 wide and maybe 1" long radiating from the exhaust opening.Can this be fixed by using a dremel and a small cutter to open up the cracks , and then filling them with say marine tex or some other filler? has anyone had the same experiance with this problem. the port side has only one or two of the same cracks. Is this a possible structural problem or only cosmetic?

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: stress cracks

one trick is to drill a small hole at each end of<br />crack to keep it from spreading further. the glass<br />isn't de-laminating from transom right?

 

[handball]

Re: stress cracks

mellow yellow,<br />Thanks for the reply . The stress cracks are around the exhaust outlets on the side of the boat about 20" from the stern of the boat.Drilling holes at each end of the cracks sounds like good advice. I would like to know how much I should widen the cracks and how deep to make them before filling. Also would marine tex be good for this repair? I think this may be a common problem with sea rays because of the exhaust hose being clamped to the fiberglass outlets, maybe the cracks are caused by the hose vibrating the fiberglass outlets.<br /><br />Bill

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: stress cracks

how much to remove depends on how deep cracks are.<br />marinetex is a good choice IMO. try to find a way<br />to remove the stress causing them.<br />good luck,<br />M.Y.

 

[Ryoken]

Re: stress cracks

extremely common prob for Sea Ray's.. i've probably done a couple dozen Dancers, etc with this prob.. it's due to the thick gel in that area..<br /><br />just die grind them out thoroughly with a carbide burr, fill with a fairing compound. low density filler in resin is the proper way to do it... then gel as needed..

 

[Solittle]

Re: stress cracks

You do not need to grind very wide or deep (1/8" should be plenty) and use marine tex or the process Royken mentioned.

 

[handball]

Re: stress cracks

Thanks ryoken,<br />Thanks for the help, been around boats for a long time but have not done much repairing on fiberglass boats.I just called a local repair guy here in long island n.y. described the problem and he gave me an estimate of $800 to $1000 to make repair of exhaust area cracks on one side of the boat.Could you tell me what brand products I should use for the fill material? Also he said to me I bet it is on the starboard side of the boat, it is on the starboard side.In your experiance do you find these cracks to be very deep? or just the thickness of the jell coat?<br /><br />Thanks again for your help<br /><br />Bill

 

[crazy charlie]

Re: stress cracks

Handball the 80s Searays were known for that type of stress cracking in that area.The cracks are purely cosmetic.Dont waste the time,expense or effort unless seeing them really bothers you.Dont use marine tex to fill them after they have been dremmeled open.There are epoxies specifically designed for this purpose that are better suited to avoid reoccurance.I had stress cracks in a few different areas of my boat and also a section I wanted to change the color of.I decided to have a pro do it.I had every stress crack and chip repaired and had the entire hull coated with Imron.The boat looks brand new now.The guy that did the job stated specifically that he would never use marine tex.The price you mentioned did not sound unusual because the entire stern of the boat would have to be done to do the job right.How much do the cracks bother you????My guy is on Long Island if you need a reco.Charlie

 

[Ryoken]

Re: stress cracks

hey Bill, no prob..<br /><br />yeah, seriously, i've seen dozens of these, lot of Sea Rays around here <br /><br />and yes, they are strictly cosmetic. you can diegrind them deep and you'll still be in gel usually, thus the prob in the first place.<br /><br />if the boat is at least a few years old, the cracks that have shown will more than likely be the only ones. in other words, you more than likely wont get any additional down the road..<br /><br />i'm gonna catch hell around here for this but, as far as all the pro marine guys in my area, marinetex is a joke. their may be a few occasional projects for the boat owner that he may wanna use it, but no pros in my area use it for anything.. we have a kit of it thats been sitting on a shelf for 10+ yrs.. not even sure where it came from, think someone gave it to us..<br /><br />we use strictly West System products for all our fairing/filleting/adhesive needs... the low density #410 makes excellent fairing compound when mixed with resin.. West is a little pricey and there are others out there, but we swear by it... <br /><br /> http://www.westsystem.com/ <br /><br />as far as price, that 800 to 1000 isn't rediculous. we're $75 an hour, which is relatively cheap round here. a 10 hr repair wouldn't be out of the question by the time you grind, fill, fair, gel and wetsand. if they sprayed 3,4" out around the ports... so figure 10 x 75 =750 + materials.. <br /><br />i very well could get it done in 4 to 6 if it wasn't bad and went well, BUT i generally highball estimates cuz i'd rather tell you a thousand and charge you 750 when it goes well, as opposed to saying 500 and charging 750.. i figure its always best to give worst case scenario..<br /><br />on that note, it isn't out of question to do it yourself at all.. dremel or diegrinder with a carbide burr. you can go 1/4, 1/2 wide, whatever you need to get them, slight v is good. don't be surprised if you have to go in a 1/2", that gel is mega thick round the ports. just make sure you go deep enough to get the whole crack out, or at least the majority of it. the crack shouldn't be any deeper than the gel, as soon as you see glass, the crack should be gone, it's strictly too many mils of gel. if you just go down a little and leave the crack down under your repair it can work its way back up eventually. <br /><br />one good thing you have going is that although there a few different arctic whites and other assorted Sea Ray colors, by far one of the easier boat manufacturers to match.. if you need gel tips, give me a shout..

 

[handball]

Re: stress cracks

Thanks for the info ryoken,<br />I am definatly going to give the repair a shot as soon as the weather gets a little warmer.I will buy the w.s. #410 and the epoxy and go with that.I do have another question for you and that is after filling the repairs which by the way is about 10 cracks an inch long, can the matching jell coat be applied with a brush and then sanded out, or does it have to be sprayed on.I dont have the spray equipment or experience to use it , I have done all my spraying from cans.Also where can the matching jell coat be purchased for a 1987 sea ray?I have removed all the old double striping (boot top) and plan on painting the boot top with a maroon gloss paint so I can continue the stripes aft of the exhaust opening all the way to the stern.Hopefully this will cover almost all of the repaired area.<br /><br />Bill

 

[Ryoken]

Re: stress cracks

you can get gel from <br /><br /> https://www.minicraft.com/index.htm <br /><br />just give them the year and hull number from your transom. have them send you a small container of patch reducer too. they also have gel available in an aerosol spray can, tho i've never used it or know prices (i think they're pricey). <br /><br />you can also get small disposable aerosol sprayers called Prevail. basically a little glass jar that attachs to an aerosol sprayer, this may be your best and cheapest spray option. tho i haven't used one in years and not sure who has them. did a quick search and didn't find any links. try your local marine supply.<br /><br />and yes, you can brush and wetsand out, but it may take a couple coats/ sands to get it just right. sand your filler with 80ish till its level. then sand to lower the gel area more than the surrounding area with 180 to 220. this will give you a few mils buildup so you wont wetsand thru to your filler.. if brushing, follow mixing instruction for gel having the gel on the thick side. put a liberal coat on area. you can facilitate drying by getting a small container of PVA (release agent, available from minicraft), usually sprayed over the gel to help dry. you can spray it with regular fantastic style bottle tho, like a Spray 9 bottle. obviously it should be thoroughly cleaned.. you dont have to PVA tho, it will dry without it, just make sure your hardener is at a higher percentage so it will kick off well. the gel will come with a chart explaining this all.<br /><br />when dry, wetsand with 280 to 320 so the entire are is just slightly low. if you see filler coming thru, move on. next coat you'll want a little thinner than the first with the patch reducer. when dry, wetsand with 600, then 1000 and rub out with compound. with your finish coat try to keep brush strokes to a minimum, you can use a foam brush, but the gel will eat and swell it VERY quickly, but it is doable if you hustle..<br /><br />spraying will be slightly different, if you do go the Prevail route, let me know, and i can help walk you thru it..<br /><br />and yeah, the boot stripe should help you hide any minor glitchs... try to keep your gel repair area tight in case your gel doesn't match perfectly, maybe a 2 or 3" band around the ports.. when you get your gel, place a small dab on a buffed area of gel to get an idea if the color they sent looks good. if you need to tint, i can give you a few pointers for that...

 

[handball]

Re: stress cracks

Thanks for all your help Ryoken it sounds like the filling of the cracks is the easy part but the finishing is another matter. I guess it is like anything else the more you do the better you get at it.I am going to try minicraft as you sugested and see how that works out.The weather man says 50 degrees for this sat. maybe we can start to look foward to some better weather here in n.y.I have allready managed to sand the bottom to get it ready for painting, by doing it in stages an hour here and there.Thats whats really nice about having the boat next to the house.<br />good luck, stay warm<br />Bill

 

[handball]

Re: stress cracks

Hi Ryoken,<br />Went out today with a dremel tool and about an 1/8 inch dia ball head cutting tool.I ran the cutter thru the jell coat and down to the glass below.In the area around the exhaust the jell seemed to be about 1/4 " thick and as I got below that the jell was about 1/16" thick. Should I continue down slightly into the glass below, If so how far down? So far I am down to the glass in every crack. Should I be using the 205 or the 206 hardener if the temperature here is about 50 degrees.Also after filling the widened crack areas could I then cover the epoxy with tape to contain it in the cracks, I have sometimes used clear tape on verticle walls to contain the epoxy.Another question I have is what sort of consistency should the mix be ?<br /><br />Thanks<br /><br />Bill

 

[Ryoken]

Re: stress cracks

hey bill<br /><br />if your thru the gel and seeing glass, you should be fine.. but you can go a little into the glass if your still seeing a crack...<br /><br />right now i'm still using fast hardener. unless your whipping up big batchs of fairing compound you should have an adequate potlife to work with, with the fast. keep in mind the bigger the batch and the more you mix it, the faster it'll kick off. today i was mixing 1/2 gallons at a clip in 5 gallon pails with a drill mixer setup. we get our 410 in boxes the size of coolers <br /><br />you wont be needing much fairing compound. its always best to make a little extra, as opposed to needing a little more. you should be able to make plenty of 410ed fairing compound with 5 or 6 pumps of epoxy from their mini-pump setup. make sure you add your hardener and give it a little mix before adding your filler. add 410 in increments, about 1/2 a yogurt cups worth or so at a time. you'll be surprised how much you add to get it up to consistency of mayo or peanut butter. <br /><br />for a slightly stronger compound you can go to a mayo consistency, where peaks in your mixing container will slump. this will sag a little on you in the repairs. and yes, you can tape over it to retain (this is also a trick we use for gel on minor newboat blowouts, green fineline over the gel leaves a pretty smooth finish) but for the epoxy any tape will do, light bonding masking tape is preferable.<br /><br />but honestly, its far easier to kick that compound up to a peanut butter consistency, where the peeks dont sag. it will then stay put for you in the repair and only loses minor strength.<br /><br />its also best to "wetout" the repairs with a slightly thickened batch before applying your thick stuff. so as your adding your 410, and it gets to a consistency of say, catsup, wet your area to be filled. a small disposable or chip brush works well for that. just coat the area, your not trying to get any build. this will allow your thickened stuff to adhere and fill much better.<br /><br />read thru the "using west system" over at http://www.westsystem.com/ for details on all this..<br /><br />hope that helps

 

[handball]

Re: stress cracks

Thanks once again Ryoken,<br />I really appreciate all your help regarding the stress cracks.And I'm sure there are other fellows out there that are interested in this problem also.<br /><br />I will be picking up the west stuff tomorrow and hope to do the job soon.<br /><br />best regards,<br /><br />Bill

 

[flashback]

Re: stress cracks

Bill, Ryoken's suggestion about the pre-val sprayers for gel is a good one I have used them several times for minor repairs... get them at an auto paint store... I also like the little air brush setups that work on canned air... you can get them at walmart in the toy dept. where the model cars etc. are at. I thin my gel a little with styrene and the air brush works great.... you have several containers that you can put product into and just switch the spray head from one to another. gel in one, pva in another, etc....goodluck. by the way, Ryoken, I could use some help matching colors, I have the damdest time matching the color..........

 

[Ryoken]

Re: stress cracks

hey flash <br /><br />color matching is without a doubt an artform, or at least an acquired ability <br /><br />couple thoughts on it from my world.. i do keep a full spectrum of colors available from MiniCraft in stock and do order specifac factory gels from various manufacturers including Spectrum, etc.. <br /><br />not that "factory" batchs match, your lucky if they're dead on 1/2 the time. they usually need a little tweaking.<br /><br />as far as color changing goes, i generally try to determined the general base tone of a color, whether its a yellowish, greenish, grayish, pinkish, etc tone. and rarely are they just "that one" tone, they will generally have mixes of those bases, but are at at least in that direction of tone.. a gray toned gel will not usually just have a black pigment to it, but will more then likely have some browns or greens to it also.<br /><br />this is the same as car paints. when you have a blue car, there very well could be some pigment you would never think is in there, yet is in the formula. say, a red or tan...<br /><br />for a full custom color that i really have no "factory" gel for (which is the case 90% of the time) i will usually start with some from my minicraft selection that is based with the same general tone and work from that. sometimes i will change it with small amounts of another gel from their selection or tint a poured off small portion of the original gel. its always best to tint a small other batch of gel and add that to your main mix a little at a time. thus preventing overtinting, being that tint is so concentrated.<br /><br />one other thing i should point out at this time is my least concern is how dark a gel is, the key is the tone of the color. it can always be lightened with a white tint. that is usually my last step, to lighten the color if nescesary. <br /><br />i have a doozy at the moment. a 60' mid 80's Taiwan aftcab with large areas of gel to be refinished. i'll end up needing a very large batch of gel for this one, probably 6 to 8 qts. thus making a perfect color that much more difficult. not bad if you screw up a pint batch or so, but dont want to waste 2 gallons. <br /><br />hope that was of some help. anything specifac that i might be able to help with, just ask...

 

[flashback]

Re: stress cracks

Ryoken, thanks for the info, it gives me a direction and logical process to follow but i guess it helps if your not color blind also. in any case I can relate to the factory gel not matching. several years ago i worked for a catalina and hunter dealership and very seldom did the gel ever match but at least it was close in tint, it just was too dark or too light...anyway I don't want to steal handball's post.. thanks again.....By the way, wouldn't it be better to re-gel the entire boat if you have that much area to re-do anyhow? (on the tiawan boat)

 

[Ryoken]

Re: stress cracks

hehe, not on a 60 <br /><br />it'd be like gelling your house... it's got some major areas that need refinishing, but they are areas that have decent breakpoints or good blend areas. transom, hardtop and some interior panels...<br /><br />and yeah, it definitely helps to have an eye for color. my old boss who taught me the ropes had a very "natural" eye for it, whereas for me it was more an acquired ability..<br /><br /> hopefully that post may help handball some when it comes time to gel too.