Sudden No Start on Lake (cranking fine) Mariner 2stroke 60 hp 3 cylinder 1995 0G268097
1995 Mariner Black in color (not bigfoot) on my 1994 Lund
Mariner Three cylinder, 60 hp, s/n: G268097
I believe it is an ELPTO (electric start, power tilt, remote steering, throttle, shifting, and remote tilt control, tach. in dash)
Problem: key-on cranking - no start (no combustion ignition)
Confirmed: cranking is strong, audible click heard from pushing in key (fuel enrichment) lever for idle speed indeed moves levers on motor and audibly changes the compression sound during cranking, bulb on fuel line is firm when pumping, and re-seated connection to fuel line on motor just to be sure... no issue.
Background: Ran great out on the lake 5-6 miles, then no start after several moves fishing.
Cranks over like a top... strong and fast cranking... no combustion... not even trying to start. If the carbs were getting stuck I would expect it to start to run rough and sputter before this... but not a complete no start out of the blue (was running smooth before this, only some stubborn re-starts when cold then ran fine when warmed up)
Questions on troubleshooting:
- How to confirm fuel
... look for fuel spraying out of open spark plug holes while cranking? (I did not see fuel spray)
-plugs didn't look bad but I don't know how to read them that well just looked like normal wear and tear and seems to have some wetness from fuel
- How to confirm kill switch and ignition wire circuit?
- Ground or Open circuit to disable ignition?(the seloc manual does not seem to define this)
- on quick initial checks I did not see ground continuity at the kill switch wire (assuming I had the right pin at the round engine connector
-8-way connector disconnected at the engine so maybe the ground was feed from the connector (I disconnected)...
measurements: I believe I can check from pin 4 to pin 6 on the boat side while toggling ignition switch and kill switch... agreed? Easier to just disconnect the bullet connector with the black (yellow strip) wire near the ignition box? I may try this to see if it starts with a hose on it in the driveway...
- How to confirm spark - (awaiting delivery of a remote starter switch)
-bypass starter solenoid, install spark plug in plug wire, and place tip of plug against ground point on engine block and check for spark jumping the gap during cranking?
-what are single points of failure that could cause this?
-----the cylinders are almost isolated except for the - fuel pump, rectifier, temp sensor, voltage regulator? Trying to think if items that would not affect engine cranking but would affect combustion ignition... and would cause this abrupt and complete no start... fuel filter somewhere? debris clogging fuel hose maybe?
Additional background if of interest:> I believe this motor setup is called an ELPTO... it has Electric start, both a tilt control on the motor and a remote tilt (hydraulic with relays) at the throttle/shift control, it has remote steering and throttle control, and ignition key start at the back of the throttle control box. There is a tachometer in the dash.
Note:-I tried to remove three flat head screws on the shift lever / throttle assembly to see if I could open the box and check the wiring for the ignition switch and kill switch (hidden by the housing) the three screws are loosened but are not coming out... I'm wondering if they are broken or if they are meant to stay in place and the housing needs only to be wedged/pried open now? I don't see any other fasteners holding it together. Although there may be some on the other side I can't see since it is bolted to the gunwhale and hard to get to the other side of the panel its mounted on I believe I can feel a stud and nut behind there... Thanks for any tips on getting that a part? (although may not be needed right now). The pivot point of the throttle arm has a plastic cover I popped off and the arm seems to pivot on a stud.
I've worked on many a commercial truck and I'm a car hobbyist although a bit out of practice and this is my first outboard, so I"m not totally aloof but appreciate any advice on getting started.
This motor ran fine last year on two outings, ran it out of fuel before winter storage, had marine stabil in the fuel tank, burned most of that out already this year on 2 trips. went on the 3rd trip of the year with a topped off fuel tank when this happened.
Had it running fine a few weeks before 8 hrs up and down the river, with several shut downs to drift on the trolling motor...Long running time and several re-starts then a long running time to get back in... never had a no start issue like this before. Strange.
Thanks for any tips for efficient troubleshooting... I have new spark plugs and new carb gasket kits coming just in case but I have a feeling this may be a fuel pump or ignition part that needs to be replaced.... the prior owner did not have battery shut-off switches on the boat.. I'm thinking to install some so that when I'm charging the batteries the motor electrical components are isolated. I'm wondering if I do end up finding a fried ignition module if the higher voltage from battery charging could have been the culprit.
Thanks again for any insight...
1995 Mariner Black in color (not bigfoot) on my 1994 Lund
Mariner Three cylinder, 60 hp, s/n: G268097
I believe it is an ELPTO (electric start, power tilt, remote steering, throttle, shifting, and remote tilt control, tach. in dash)
Problem: key-on cranking - no start (no combustion ignition)
Confirmed: cranking is strong, audible click heard from pushing in key (fuel enrichment) lever for idle speed indeed moves levers on motor and audibly changes the compression sound during cranking, bulb on fuel line is firm when pumping, and re-seated connection to fuel line on motor just to be sure... no issue.
Background: Ran great out on the lake 5-6 miles, then no start after several moves fishing.
Cranks over like a top... strong and fast cranking... no combustion... not even trying to start. If the carbs were getting stuck I would expect it to start to run rough and sputter before this... but not a complete no start out of the blue (was running smooth before this, only some stubborn re-starts when cold then ran fine when warmed up)
Questions on troubleshooting:
- How to confirm fuel
... look for fuel spraying out of open spark plug holes while cranking? (I did not see fuel spray)
-plugs didn't look bad but I don't know how to read them that well just looked like normal wear and tear and seems to have some wetness from fuel
- How to confirm kill switch and ignition wire circuit?
- Ground or Open circuit to disable ignition?(the seloc manual does not seem to define this)
- on quick initial checks I did not see ground continuity at the kill switch wire (assuming I had the right pin at the round engine connector
-8-way connector disconnected at the engine so maybe the ground was feed from the connector (I disconnected)...
measurements: I believe I can check from pin 4 to pin 6 on the boat side while toggling ignition switch and kill switch... agreed? Easier to just disconnect the bullet connector with the black (yellow strip) wire near the ignition box? I may try this to see if it starts with a hose on it in the driveway...
- How to confirm spark - (awaiting delivery of a remote starter switch)
-bypass starter solenoid, install spark plug in plug wire, and place tip of plug against ground point on engine block and check for spark jumping the gap during cranking?
-what are single points of failure that could cause this?
-----the cylinders are almost isolated except for the - fuel pump, rectifier, temp sensor, voltage regulator? Trying to think if items that would not affect engine cranking but would affect combustion ignition... and would cause this abrupt and complete no start... fuel filter somewhere? debris clogging fuel hose maybe?
Additional background if of interest:> I believe this motor setup is called an ELPTO... it has Electric start, both a tilt control on the motor and a remote tilt (hydraulic with relays) at the throttle/shift control, it has remote steering and throttle control, and ignition key start at the back of the throttle control box. There is a tachometer in the dash.
Note:-I tried to remove three flat head screws on the shift lever / throttle assembly to see if I could open the box and check the wiring for the ignition switch and kill switch (hidden by the housing) the three screws are loosened but are not coming out... I'm wondering if they are broken or if they are meant to stay in place and the housing needs only to be wedged/pried open now? I don't see any other fasteners holding it together. Although there may be some on the other side I can't see since it is bolted to the gunwhale and hard to get to the other side of the panel its mounted on I believe I can feel a stud and nut behind there... Thanks for any tips on getting that a part? (although may not be needed right now). The pivot point of the throttle arm has a plastic cover I popped off and the arm seems to pivot on a stud.
I've worked on many a commercial truck and I'm a car hobbyist although a bit out of practice and this is my first outboard, so I"m not totally aloof but appreciate any advice on getting started.
This motor ran fine last year on two outings, ran it out of fuel before winter storage, had marine stabil in the fuel tank, burned most of that out already this year on 2 trips. went on the 3rd trip of the year with a topped off fuel tank when this happened.
Had it running fine a few weeks before 8 hrs up and down the river, with several shut downs to drift on the trolling motor...Long running time and several re-starts then a long running time to get back in... never had a no start issue like this before. Strange.
Thanks for any tips for efficient troubleshooting... I have new spark plugs and new carb gasket kits coming just in case but I have a feeling this may be a fuel pump or ignition part that needs to be replaced.... the prior owner did not have battery shut-off switches on the boat.. I'm thinking to install some so that when I'm charging the batteries the motor electrical components are isolated. I'm wondering if I do end up finding a fried ignition module if the higher voltage from battery charging could have been the culprit.
Thanks again for any insight...
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