Tankless Hot Water Heaters

[BRG25]

Anyone have any experience with these? My old tank started leaking last night and I'm trying to decide which way to go. I already have b-vent running vertically through the roof. I'm assuming this would be sufficient? I live alone in a small 1 bedroom house so I would think this would be an ideal replacement. What do you guys think?

Thanks...Brian

 

[alldodge]

Re: Tankless Hot Water Heaters

Anyone have any experience with these? My old tank started leaking last night and I'm trying to decide which way to go. I already have b-vent running vertically through the roof. I'm assuming this would be sufficient? I live alone in a small 1 bedroom house so I would think this would be an ideal replacement. What do you guys think?

Thanks...Brian

The vent may or may not be correct, have to find one and see what the manufactures specs are. Most all the ones produced today only need PVC venting so heat isn't an issue. They all require an outside air intake for fuel burning. Need to have either propane or natural gas, other then that, they are very energy efficient. With your one bedroom you may even be able to get by with an under the counter model. The things that goes out over time is the burner, may want to check what they cost.

 

[Fleetwin]

Re: Tankless Hot Water Heaters

We had one in our last house. I saw no difference, in performance, than a tank unit OTHER THAN the bills. They are MORE EFFICIENT-no question.

But, they are expensive to buy and install.

Your call. Does the price outweigh your hot water use? One person, I question the payback.

On the other hand, if you plan to stay in that home a long time, I think it would be worth it.

 

[foodfisher]

Re: Tankless Hot Water Heaters

Costly and you may have to upgrade your plumbing.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Tankless Hot Water Heaters

Anyone have any experience with these? My old tank started leaking last night and I'm trying to decide which way to go. I already have b-vent running vertically through the roof. I'm assuming this would be sufficient? I live alone in a small 1 bedroom house so I would think this would be an ideal replacement. What do you guys think?

Thanks...Brian

Ayuh,.... 2 different 1s, 'n 2 different fuels,....

My 1st was a Bosch I bought on ebay, an electric water heater, whole house, not point of use,...

After goin' through runnin' a new bigger electric line, a new bigger sub-panel, 'n all it takes to go from a 30 amp, to 80 amp feed,...
It worked Perfectly for that whole summer at the river house,...
Deb loved it, perfect dish washin' water,... Perfect shower hot water, for as long as ya wanta stand in it,...
Life was Great, as Deb was Happy,....

That fall, I did my usual winterizations, 'n Drained everything Dry,...
Followin' spring, hooked everything back up, 'n NO hot water,....
After many phone calls, 'n testin' with the tech's, it was determined the circuit board wasn't/ ain't workin',...
I'm Still tryin' to get 'em to sell me a new circuit board, but they say it can't go bad, 'n the warranty is expired,...
of course, My reply is/ has been, the Tests say the circuit board is Junk, so it IS Bad,...
To 'ell with the warranty, I wanta BUY a new one, which is greeted with Silence,...
At this point, years later, it's still screwed to the cellar wall, doin' Nothin',...

I went back to an ole tank water heater that fell in my lap,....

Here at the ole farm house, I took out the electric tank water heater, Years ago, 'n use the tankless coil in the oil boiler,...
'n durin' the winter, the oil boiler is the distribution point for my home made outdoor wood boiler,....
So, from September through May, my hot water, like my heat, is free wood fired,...
Durin' the 1st summer, I used the oil boiler, but burnt through an entire tank of oil,...
Way to much money for the hot water,...
So, the followin' year, I plumbed in a propane fired on-demand hot water heater, bought from a discount mail order house, Chinese junk,...
The 1st summer was spent fussin' with the controls, tryin' to figure out how to get the heat I wanted, when I wanted it,...
In other words, turn on the hot water in the shower, 'n have it last forever,....
Since I figured out the right settin's, it works Perfectly, balancin' the heat, vs: the water flow from the well pump,...
Last summer, I had all the hot water I wanted, for the price of a single 100lb propane tank of fuel,....
Way cheaper than keepin' the oil boiler at temp,...

'course, now it's winter again, 'n my hot water is from the free wood burnt in my home made outdoor wood boiler,....

 

[BRG25]

Re: Tankless Hot Water Heaters

Thanks for the information. This is what I currently have set up now and as you can see, space is at a premium. From what I've read, the indoor units use what they call concentric venting which allows for both incoming air and out going exhaust in the same run. Since they are direct vent, I am considering mounting one on an outside wall. I have to take a closer look at how difficult it would be to relocate my gas and water lines.

Maybe this is too much work

 

[alldodge]

Re: Tankless Hot Water Heaters

Thanks for the information. This is what I currently have set up now and as you can see, space is at a premium. From what I've read, the indoor units use what they call concentric venting which allows for both incoming air and out going exhaust in the same run. Since they are direct vent, I am considering mounting one on an outside wall. I have to take a closer look at how difficult it would be to relocate my gas and water lines.

Maybe this is too much work

Depends all on the beer to work ratio conversion and how many friends needed to help and there beer intake

 

[bigdee]

Re: Tankless Hot Water Heaters

I prefer to pay a little extra every month to keep things reliable and simple!

 

[Bondo]

Re: Tankless Hot Water Heaters

Ayuh,.... This is the 1 I've got hard mounted in my cellar,...

The only "Problem" I encountered was the exhaust pipe is an odd size, so I hada Bondize it to get properly vented,...

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Tankless Hot Water Heaters

Here is my take on it:

I installed a Rheem(never install that brand again)6 years ago. Rheem, Paloma and Ruud are all the same.

I am on propane so the savings I get are more than if you are currently on NG.

Pros:
1) Unlimited hot water
2) Some energy savings
3) Frees up room where the old tank was

Cons:
1) Expensive venting. May need to move to outside wall if you have a lot of vertical venting.
2) Needs a much larger gas line.
3) Needs more maintenance to make sure they stay efficient. I de-lime mine every 6 months
4) No longer have an emergency storage of water.
5) If you move to outside wall, there is now more cold water in pipes that you need to run to get to your fixture.
6) When they fail, they are complex and expensive to fix. You may also not have hot water for awhile if there are no parts in your area.
7) No hot water during a power outage.


Mine started acting up 2 years ago. Turns out some of the flame rods weren't detecting flame so it shuts down the unit. I now get to take the whole burner assembly out on an annual basis and clean flame rods.

I got lucky when mine started failing. Was able to obtain a service manual which allowed me to put heater in diagnostics mode. That is how I diagnosed the flame rods.

If I bought another one, it would be a Noritz or a Rinnai. I would not buy any other brand based on my new research. That is of course IF I would buy another one which there is no guarantee. Knowing what I know now, I probably wouldn't put one in. By the way, I did the install myself which saved a lot of money too.

The time it took to get the hot water to the furthest fixture was a pain. At least with a normal tank heater you have some natural convection. I ended up buying one of these to pump the water to my bathroom so I didn't have to run the water so long. I have a 3000 sq ft house so its a long run.
Metlund D'MAND Sts-70T Hot Water Circulation System, 14-Gallon Per Minute - Amazon.com
http://www.gothotwater.com/hot-water-systems/how-it-works
This is actually pretty nice even without a tankless but they are pricey. Didn't want to have that much water running into my septic system all the time.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Tankless Hot Water Heaters

Thanks for the information. This is what I currently have set up now and as you can see, space is at a premium. From what I've read, the indoor units use what they call concentric venting which allows for both incoming air and out going exhaust in the same run. Since they are direct vent, I am considering mounting one on an outside wall. I have to take a closer look at how difficult it would be to relocate my gas and water lines.

Maybe this is too much work

They do have condensing units which make the exhaust venting a little cheaper but the units are more costly. A tradeoff you will have to make.

 

[kfa4303]

Re: Tankless Hot Water Heaters

We had one in our last house. I saw no difference, in performance, than a tank unit OTHER THAN the bills. They are MORE EFFICIENT-no question.

But, they are expensive to buy and install.

Your call. Does the price outweigh your hot water use? One person, I question the payback.

On the other hand, if you plan to stay in that home a long time, I think it would be worth it.

The on demand plumbing is nice, works great and just plain makes more sense when you think about it. They're also pretty much the standard in Europe where space is at a premium. You will pay more up front, but I believe prices are getting more and more competitive every year and I'm sure you could factor it into the selling price of the house when and if you sell it. More and more folks want and expect better, more efficient materials. It's already hard to sell a house at all in the SW unless it has solar panels of some sort already installed. There are various other solar options as well. All of the public pools in my town are heated via solar energy, not panels, just good ol' radiant energy.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Tankless Hot Water Heaters

This is a good read.
Pros and cons of tankless water heaters

 

[joed]

Re: Tankless Hot Water Heaters

Make sure service and parts are available for the unit you purchase. I was talking to a guy yesterday who told about the ones sold a HD here are hard to find parts. He is an HVAC tech and said he could not find parts to service the HD ones as HD doesn't stock them and he didn't know who did.

 

[WIMUSKY]

Re: Tankless Hot Water Heaters

Here's an interesting vid. I think it's best to talk to people that have real world experience. I don't take much stock in reviews. I've bought various products that didn't have great reviews and have been very happy.....

Tankless 101 - Part 2 - Misconceptions, Myths and Outright Lies - YouTube

Here's more on Rinnai
Rinnai Water Heaters - Other things you should know - YouTube

I'm not promoting the product. In fact, I have a tank and am thinking about going tankless when it dies. My wife and daughter like to take endless showers. Not too concerned about savings, more concerned about performance.

 

[BRG25]

Re: Tankless Hot Water Heaters

Thank you for all the input. After reading the links you provided and comparing costs, I'm going to stick with the setup I have. There is around $300-$400 difference between traditional and tankless although apparently you can get a $300 income tax credit with tankless. The special exhaust pipe, fittings etc. are another few hundred unless you go with a condensing unit. My gas bills are very reasonable now and it would take a 100 years make up the difference in cost not to mention, my old tank lasted 25 years. I may spring for one of the Energy Star tanks with electronic ignition.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Tankless Hot Water Heaters

One thing you should know. With some brands, your warranty suffers if the homeowner does the installation. Not sure if it's the labor or the parts.

Here's an interesting vid. I think it's best to talk to people that have real world experience. I don't take much stock in reviews. I've bought various products that didn't have great reviews and have been very happy.....

Tankless 101 - Part 2 - Misconceptions, Myths and Outright Lies - YouTube

One thing that he did mention that is very nice is the temp control. I set my temp of my water heater to 114 so that when I take a shower, I just turn on the hot. That is pretty nice.

Running the unit until it tells you to flush it is like waiting for the newer cars to tell you when to change the oil. Probably not a good idea.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Tankless Hot Water Heaters

Here is my take.

a very close friend had a tankless heater installed in his lake house (6 bedroom, 3 bath in Hayward WI). when I was taking a shower, everything was nice. then someone opened a faucet on the other end of the house. upon closing the faucet, the instant drop in water pressure turned off the heat...... then I got hit with 45 degree cold water then got hit by hot water.

the contractor had been out there a few times to attempt to remedy. it now has a 60 gallon tank type hot water heater installed.

 

[WIMUSKY]

Re: Tankless Hot Water Heaters

Here is my take.

a very close friend had a tankless heater installed in his lake house (6 bedroom, 3 bath in Hayward WI). when I was taking a shower, everything was nice. then someone opened a faucet on the other end of the house. upon closing the faucet, the instant drop in water pressure turned off the heat...... then I got hit with 45 degree cold water then got hit by hot water.

the contractor had been out there a few times to attempt to remedy. it now has a 60 gallon tank type hot water heater installed.

I'm assuming all tankless heaters are not created equal. Maybe another brand addresses that issue?

That reminds me, I need to go to Hayward today....

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Tankless Hot Water Heaters

I'm assuming all tankless heaters are not created equal.

That is definitely true. Obviously, I have a bad taste in my mouth due to the Rheem brand I have. I may be singing a different tune with another brand.