The little motor that could. (no matter what I did to stop it)

84CJ7

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Nov 13, 2005
Messages
41
Bit of a book here, but it was entertaining.

This problem has solved itself but I thought I would throw it out for you people to ponder over. Apparently Evinrude apparently makes 40 hp diesel outboards since recently while I was fixing a customers '95 40 hp 2 cyl outboard (tried to suck a mouse nest in the idle ports and the carbs had to come off to be cleaned) I got it working great and was revving the motor up and down, (A little higher than I should have) it suddenly stuck at 5000 rpms, thinking I had left a piece of carb linkage out of place and it had jammed I quickly went back to the motor to find that it looked normal. At this point I was concerned for the engines health since running wide open without a load at high rpms on a hose isnt good. So I went and turned the key off and not only did it not stop it, it actually gained 100 rpms and started sounding a little askew. Thinking I had a shorted key I went and pulled the safety lanyard. Nope, no good there either. I ran back the motor still wildly spinning out of control and finally just yanked both spark plug wires off of it. Umm, nope that didn't stop it either. So I just stared at the engine happily running at 5000 rpms without a miss with both of its spark plugs clearly disconnected from the wires and scratched my head. I tried putting it in gear like that and it banged into forward and started spinning the prop without slowing at all. I probably shoulda tried drowning it with the primer solenoid but I was afraid that it would spin faster, so instead I managed to cover all the spaced out holes on the airbox and got it to choke itself to death. I eventually started it up again and got it to do that once more before it finally quit doing it and it didn't come back but I was a little reluctant to give it back to the customer that way. Apparently its done with those antics though.

Near as I can figure something in the mouse nest which was mostly foam rubber and bits of other stuff from the pontoon it was on must have gotten sucked in and cooked to carbon that glowed hot enough in both cylinders to somehow allow that to happen. The odds of that happening to both cylinders at the same time (was definetely running on both) are ridiculous but thats the best I have at this point.
Either that or it was posessed by a demon that got bored and left after some mischief. :devil:
Take your pick.
 

boatingbob

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
88
Re: The little motor that could. (no matter what I did to stop it)

Actualy depending on the compression and the octane level of the fuel a gas engine can "Diesel" it will ignite the fuel just from the compression. Might have happened to you. or some other weird unexplainable thing. I have witnessed Snow machine engines doing the "Diesel" thing and it is quite odd at first.
 

84CJ7

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Nov 13, 2005
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Re: The little motor that could. (no matter what I did to stop it)

I thought of dieseling myself, but ive never heard of anything dieseling at a smooth 5000 rpms in gear. I always thought it was supposed to be an uneven low rpm sputtering running.

I think it was the demon theorie, when I went to get my digital camera which has a video feature, to take a picture of this strange happening it suddenly wouldnt do it anymore so I must have chased it off by trying to get video of it. d:)
 

jtexas

Fleet Admiral
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Oct 13, 2003
Messages
8,646
Re: The little motor that could. (no matter what I did to stop it)

Called "runaway"...it's a risk of revving a motor up on muffs...surprising that a mechanic servicing someone else's motor would be willing to take that chance.

If it happens to one cylinder, the odds of it happening to all the rest are about 100%. Just normal carbon in the cylinders becomes glowplugs...nothing you can do to stop it...doesn't need spark, and there's enough fuel in the carb bowl for the motor to rip itself to shreds. Who knows what damage you did to that motor.
 

KYHunter2

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Messages
512
Re: The little motor that could. (no matter what I did to stop it)

I don't know how anyone , can stand to listen to an outboard, at high rpm's on muffs.

Even if engine damage wasn't , an issue.

Which of course it is.

No load, why no test wheel, / tank?

Anything above 1500 or so , on muffs , is like finger nails, on a chalk board to me.

KYHunter
 

AlanR

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 14, 2006
Messages
310
Re: The little motor that could. (no matter what I did to stop it)

ye bud how long did it run at 5 grand? Its probably Screwed...
 

tashasdaddy

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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Nov 11, 2005
Messages
51,019
Re: The little motor that could. (no matter what I did to stop it)

it's aleast time for a seafoam deep creep decarb. better check the compression first.
 

BF

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Apr 8, 2003
Messages
1,489
Re: The little motor that could. (no matter what I did to stop it)

yikes... are you serious? I can't decide which is the coupe de gras... 1) Slamming it into fwd at 5K rpm or 2) going looking for a camera so you could video it. When you say it "wouldn't do it anymore" it sounds like you tried to make it runaway again for the camera!? Sheesh.

Even if it's not toast (or soon to be toast), how many seasons worth of wear did this episode cost to both the motor and lower unit ?? (hint: answer is LOTS). Yup, I think I'll keep wrenchin' on my own motors a while longer.
 

OBJ

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 27, 2002
Messages
10,161
Re: The little motor that could. (no matter what I did to stop it)

Seems like a few folks have never made a bad call........who hasn't made one??

Engine runs away......5k rpm....turn key off....engine stays running (no surprise)......next move....pull fuel line and snuff the air.....no fuel no air no run. No.....not a good idea to slam it in gear.

Point being......let's look at the situation and learn from it and help the other guy and anyother guy that reads the post. These engines can run away on muffs very easy as jtexas posted. That's why we say don't go over 1.5k rpm....2k tops. No back pressure against the cylinders......they can go off.

Do we know what damage, if any, is done? No. We are not there. What we can do is advise, as tashasdaddy has done, check it out and hope the engine wasn't hurt.

Unfortunate happening. Ain't the first time it's happened and probably won't be the last. But if we can help someone in the future deal with the same situation, then we've done a good job.

That's my $.02 worth.
 

AlanR

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 14, 2006
Messages
310
Re: The little motor that could. (no matter what I did to stop it)

When will people learn... Run the damn thing in a bucket of water Lol.

HOLEY GEEZZ i didnt read the part about how it was a customers motor! I think id be a little more than angrey if some one did that to my outboard and gave it back to me with out completely looking it over. I hope you told him what happend to his motor.
 

jtexas

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Oct 13, 2003
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Re: The little motor that could. (no matter what I did to stop it)

OBJ's right,
All the talk of runaway on this forum but very few actual examples, here's a real learning opportunity, I for one am curious about how this one turns out.

Of course 84CJ7 will do the right thing. If it didn't overtemp, that motor can tolerate 5600 RPM. Unless there's some piston wrist slap or something going on in there but I've never heard that mentioned. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
 

MASTER Brian

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
738
Re: The little motor that could. (no matter what I did to stop it)

This is somewhat common on 2-stroke jetski motors. They can be started out of water and revved high, maybe that's the reason.

The first time it ever happened to me on one, it was pretty hairy to say the least. I had no clue what happened. Anymore, it's not that big of a deal.

This is a lean fuel condition, normally caused by an air leak or incorrect carb setting. Being as you just messed with the carbs, I'd look there first. Because of that, if I built a motor for my ski, I would completely seal off the exhaust manifold and the intake manifold, then pressurize the motor through the pulse fitting and watch for leaks. I don't think it's common practice on outboards, maybe it should be...

I've never heard of it happening at low rpms, only at higher rpms.

Here's an explanation I pulled from a ski forum...
[colour=red]"This is caused by the motor running at a lean pace which creates a ton of heat because the motor is being starved for FUEL which plays is HUGE role in cooling a two stroke engine. When this happens the heat is transfered to the hottest place in the motor and that is the combustion chamber and better yet the SPARK PLUGS. The plugs end up glowing red hot and don't need the ignition spark any longer to make the motor run. This is why when you hit the stop button it just keeps going.

Any time this happens just open up the throttle wide open and this dumps fuel in the motor and puts out the fire."[/colour]

Opening the throttle up sounds like the last thing you want to do, but it works. Don't do it gradually, hammer it open, so it gets the rush of fuel. You could also try to smother the carbs or prime it. Pulling plugs and unhooking fuel line is just wasting time and asking for damage. For one, unhooking the fuel, is also going to likely cut oil to the engine. Personally, I'm not a fan of cutting oil to my motors when they are revved to the moon. Of course, 1st thing is to kill power by turning off key.

[colour=gray]Disclaimer...
This is stuff I learned while messing with 2-stroke jetski motors. If something I stated shouldn't be done on an outboard, I hope someone will say so.[/colour]
 

MASTER Brian

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Mar 26, 2006
Messages
738
Re: The little motor that could. (no matter what I did to stop it)

Oh yeah, don't put into gear. Give it fuel by manually opening the carbs or using the high idle control on throttle.
 

84CJ7

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Nov 13, 2005
Messages
41
Re: The little motor that could. (no matter what I did to stop it)

Actually the 5k rpm wasnt my idea in the first place, for some reason the throttle on that motor has 2 settings off and on, i dont know if its the cable sticking and then letting go but it would go from idle to way too fast with a tiny bit of inching on the throttle, for some reason it would move up normally a little ways and then suddenly take off super fast, thats why i though i had a linkage issue at first, and the whole shifting thing was a desperate attempt to try to kill it and I forgot to hit the neutral button in my haste I suppose I made it sound like shifting it was the intention but opening the throttle actually was what i intended and shifting was just an unfortunate side effect, i guess i didnt open it fast enough though because it didnt kill it. I knew the float bowls prevented cutting the fuel supply in anything close to a hurry and the air box on that motor made it extremely difficult to cut the air supply with its widely spaced intake holes (though i eventually managed it).

The pontoon it was on made it extremely difficult to get into a test tank, I probably could have filled an oil drum to the top and it might have worked but nothing else could get close enough to it and I wasnt taking the motor off just to see if it ran.

All in all a bad situation i agree, i will remember to hit the damn neutral button and snap the throttle open faster next time until it dies.
 

Paul Moir

Admiral
Joined
Nov 5, 2002
Messages
6,847
Re: The little motor that could. (no matter what I did to stop it)

If so equipped, you can pull the fuel line and hit the choke. At run-away RPMS, it doesn't take any time to empty the carbs out. Some of the older OMCs could be put into run-away fairly easily if the protection circuit was broken or defeated.

You're second post explains a lot about the first one. :D
 
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