the military - do you really care about us?

mattttt25

Commander
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Sep 29, 2002
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echoes how many of us feel...<br /><br />"I think the vast differences in compensation between the victims of the<br />September 11th casualty, and those who die serving the country in<br />uniform, are profound. No one is really talking about it either because<br />you just do not criticize anything having to do with September 11th.<br /><br />Well, I just cannot let the numbers pass by because it says something<br />disturbing about the entitlement mentality of this country. If you lost<br />a family member in the September 11th attack, you're going to get an<br />average of $1,185,000. The range is a minimum guarantee of $250,000, all<br />the way up to $4.7 million. If you are a surviving family member of an<br />American soldier killed in action, the first check you get is a<br />$6,000direct death benefit, half of which is taxable. Next, you get<br />$1,750 for burial costs. If you are the surviving spouse, you get $833 a<br />month until you remarry. In addition, there is a payment of $211 per<br />month for each child under 18. When the child hits 18, those payments<br />come to a screeching halt. Keep in mind that some of the people that are<br />getting an average of $1.185 million up to $4.7 million are complaining<br />that it is not enough. <br /><br />We also learned over the weekend that some of the victims from <br /><br />the Oklahoma City bombing have started an organization asking for the<br />same deal that the September 11th families are getting. In addition to<br />that, some of the families of those bombed in the embassies are now<br />asking for compensation as well.<br /><br />You see where this is going, don't you?<br /><br />Folks, this is part and parcel of over fifty years of entitlement<br />politics in this country. It is really sad. Every time when a pay raise<br />comes up for the military, they usually receive next to nothing of a<br />raise. Now the green machine is in combat in the Middle East while their<br />families have to survive on food stamps and live in low rent housing. <br />However our own U.S. Congress just voted themselves a raise, and many of<br />you don't know that they only have to be in Congress one-time to receive<br />a pension that is more than $15,000 per month and most are now equal to<br />be millionaires plus. They also do not receive Social Security on<br />retirement because they did not have to pay into the system. If some of<br />the military people stay in for 20 years and get out as an E-7 you may<br />receive a pension of $1,000 per month, and the very people who placed<br />you in harms way receive a pension of $15,000 per month.<br /><br />I would like to see our elected officials pick up a weapon and join ranks<br />before they start cutting out benefits and lowering pay for our sons and<br />daughters who are now fighting. "When do we finally do something about<br />this??"
 

mellowyellow

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Re: the military - do you really care about us?

I couldn't agree with you more Mattt!<br />add to the list teachers, cops, and firemen.<br />all of you are WAY undercompensated IMHO.<br />couldn't even feed my kids on $200/mo.... :mad:
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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Re: the military - do you really care about us?

Ahoy, Mattttt.<br /><br />I don't disagree with you, but I think a couple of points need to be made here.<br /><br />1. 9/11 and its aftermath are an anomaly. Our country suffered an orgy of guilt and tried to buy our way out of it with exhorbitant and uncalled for awards of bux. Had those same persons been victims of muggers or drunk drivers nothing would have been done about it.<br /><br />2. Going in harm's way on behalf of our countrymen is a profession in which the possibility, or even probability, of sudden, premature death is part of the job. Many of us here, like you, volunteered to go there, and, like you, enjoyed many benefits above and beyond monetary compensation. Any promises made to me were kept, and more.<br /><br />3. You are addressing a group, here, who are your biggest fans. There may be a few of the 20,000+ members who are anti-military, but they are such a small minority as to be negligible. There is daily evidence here of how much we care about those who have taken our places in the pursuit and defense of Liberty.<br /><br />I have read the material in your post several times before in other places. The truths have been true through our history and are unlikely to change in our future. <br /><br />Thank you, Mattttt, for your service to our country and the cause of Liberty.
 

mattttt25

Commander
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Sep 29, 2002
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Re: the military - do you really care about us?

no complaints here jb. and the post was not meant to imply that anyone here does not support the military. just a good read that speaks many truths.
 

NOSLEEP

Commander
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Oct 30, 2002
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2,442
Re: the military - do you really care about us?

To bad we couldn't expropriate money from<br />our over paid hollywood pretenders and maybe<br />even some overpaid sport personalities. Kind of<br />like take from the undeserving, and give to the<br />people who really do matter in life.
 

Whaler Proud

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Feb 23, 2003
Messages
187
Re: the military - do you really care about us?

While I agree that we need to compensate our military better (and some teachers and policemen) and am deeply and forever indebted to our troops for defending me and my family, I do not believe we should target higher paid professions to siphon additional monies for our military.<br /><br />NOSLEEP's (assumed to be) tongue-in-cheek comment, if taken wholeheartedly (and this is not a slam on his comment or him), is what got us into the entitlement mentality in the first place. Since the story of Robin Hood, the underpaid, less affluent classes have rallied around a "rob the rich, feed the poor" concept. I feel it every payday when I look at my tax burden (and I am not in the affluent class, not even upper middle class).<br /><br />The ridiculous salaries of celebrities, sports professionals, and most coporate executives are the result of the marketplace and a large amount of greed. These people command their compensation because they return many times over the amount to investors and do it on a consistent basis (in a nod to Dilbert, except most corporate executives). Were any of us in the same position, it would be hard to turn down the money.<br /><br />The wages of any of the military, teachers, police, firefighters, etc. is public knowledge at the time of commitment. We forget some of the benefits of sacrificing for military service. One hitch in the armed forces gets you the G.I. Bill for your education, VA loans for your house. Take the average cost of a bachelor's degree and divide by 4 (typical enlistment) then add to the compensation received and it increases significantly.<br /><br />Anyway, I believe you get my point. Any increase in compensation for public employees comes from those with the weakest voice in government: working class stiffs who just want a little more time to fish.
 

golfer

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Jan 5, 2003
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99
Re: the military - do you really care about us?

I am not in any way saying that it is not tragic that our military people are dying...However, when you join the military, you are knowingly joining a profession that takes lives. As bad as this may sound, and it will, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Our troops are, after all, paid to take this very well known risk. I disagree with all of the money going to families of 911 deaths. It is indeed a tragedy, and I feel for all involved, but a death is a death is a death...If your son or daughter gets killed by a drunk driver, why shouldn't they get money as well? We as americans are to quick to create millionares out of tragedy. Would the money spent on the families not be better spent on trying to prevent future deaths? All who read this, please understand I mourn for those that have lost, but do not agree with huge amounts of money given to try to numb the pain. And as for military, teachers etc. being underpaid, I have seen many paystubs (I am a loan officer) from all of these groups, and they are definately NOT underpaid. And if they are, then I am in poverty...
 

LadyFish

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Re: the military - do you really care about us?

Golfer, I agree with you that payments to the families of 9-11 may not have been the right precedent to set. I think there was mass confusion about what to do with the money when individual and corporate donations started coming in so fast and furious. I also might add that American Red Cross still has $400M yet to be distributed. People donated that money to the families and wanted to make sure it went to the families of the victims. The public display of benevolence was astounding and overwhelmed these non-profits.<br /><br />I totally disagree with you about the armed forces getting paid ENOUGH. I work in social services and know that many families of our soldiers come to me for financial aide. As a matter of fact, one mother of twins whose husband is now serving has had to go on welfare.
 

mattttt25

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Re: the military - do you really care about us?

ok golfer, i'll try to maintain my composure here after your post...<br /><br />so i joined the military, knowing what i would receive in return, and knowing i may give the ultimate sacrafice- because it's a dangerous profession. i agree with you 100%.<br /><br />but... are police officers and fire fighters not in a dangerous field???? was it not their job to rush into the world trade towers and rescue people??? but how much money has gone to their families? lots. how much has the country mourned their loss? lots.<br /><br />give the innocent civilians all the money they want and deserve. but treat the "dangerous" professions equally and with the same respect.<br /><br />"...get out of the kitchen." why don't you join me.
 

BassMan283

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Aug 26, 2002
Messages
277
Re: the military - do you really care about us?

Now, you're talkin', NOSLEEP. <br /><br />"Take from them that has, give to them that hasn't."
 

muskyone

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Mar 17, 2003
Messages
814
Re: the military - do you really care about us?

i'd like to say something about teachers my mom inlaw has been teaching at the same place her whole life and she takes home 20 dollars a week less then when she started
 

crab bait

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3,831
Re: the military - do you really care about us?

has congress EVER voted against a pay rise ...???
 

LadyFish

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Re: the military - do you really care about us?

Not for themselves!
 

golfer

Petty Officer 3rd Class
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Jan 5, 2003
Messages
99
Re: the military - do you really care about us?

Ladyfish....<br /><br />Name a military person making less than $20,000/year, not including the usual option to stay at a base for little or no money, free college, young retirement age, etc... As for the mother of twins going on welfare, that confuses me. First, if the husband is over fighting, that means he is still getting paid at least as much as he was before he started fighting. This means every cent of his income may be used by the wife, while he is at war, he will/has no expenses. This would actually give her more income than if he were with her. If she is that broke, why not suggest she get a job like anyone else should if they don't have enough money? Welfare is a whole other can of worms, it's like saying "please don't work, have more kids, we will pay you to do nothing sensible".<br /><br />mattttt25...<br /><br />I am glad you kept your composure. While keeping it consider the whole reason I don't want to join you. I am not a soldier, military is not my cup of tea. You say "why not join me"...Well, it is my choice not to join you, just as it was your choice to join the military. One thing is for sure, if I joined the military, I would make more money than I do now, and I consider my job to be well paid.<br /><br />muskyone...<br /><br />Any teacher I have ever known has/had a starting income in the $22,000/year range and up. If your mom in law has been teaching her whole life, and is making $20 less per week now, maybe it's time for her to do something else. Sometimes I think all the income complainers in the US don't stop to think that no one is forcing them to stay doing what they are doing. Also, I wish all the people in the US that complain about so many issues would go live in another country for awhile. They will learn to appreciate how absolutely, astonishingly lucky we are to live in this great country, the USA.
 

SCO

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Aug 19, 2001
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Re: the military - do you really care about us?

Our society has many misplaced priorities, but the money goes where the light shines, has nothing to do with fairness, and is just a phenomenem. That spotlight bore down on the families of 911 victims. Why should that be the criteria, the standard for what is fair? There is no doubt that it is our duty to insure that dependents of those who make the ultimate sacrifice get back on their feet, however long that takes.
 

martyscher

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Mar 18, 2002
Messages
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Re: the military - do you really care about us?

The funny (or maybe just ironic) thing is, that although these extremely important jobs have low pay, difficult or dangerous situations (warrior or school teacher :( ), they are ususually able to fill these positions with very qualified and dedicated people, some who make it their lifetime career.<br /><br />Maybe it's not just always about the money.
 

mellowyellow

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Re: the military - do you really care about us?

the people of 9/11 did not choose to put themselves<br />in harms way! and most money isn't from Gov't./<br />taxpayers... BIG diff.<br />that said, there's no way way G.I's should be so<br />desperate they have to rely on public assistance!<br />directly effects morale IMHO.
 

LadyFish

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Re: the military - do you really care about us?

Golfer, since the military pay scale is 9 pages long and difficult to comprehend between base pay and allowances, I'll just agree to disagree with you (based on pay stubs from my own applicants) about our soldiers getting paid ENOUGH. Beside, IMO they could never be paid ENOUGH.
 

golfer

Petty Officer 3rd Class
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Jan 5, 2003
Messages
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Re: the military - do you really care about us?

Ladyfish......<br /><br />Thank you for the attempt at making me feel bad with your foul comments about my personality. Shows that you are a quality person. I hope you don't think I care what you think of my rightenousness, and my arrogance. Just my opinions your reading, you have yours, I have mine.
 

LadyFish

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Re: the military - do you really care about us?

First off, I do not grant welfare, I am a private non-profit, dealing with the prevention of blindness through various free programs and services that provide early detection and treatment. Our services are offered to children beginning at 6 months old and up regardless of income level except in regards to treatment. We provide free eye exams, glasses and surgery to those who cannot afford it.<br /><br />The family I mentioned prequalified for my services since they were already on welfare and fell within the government guidelines for poverty level. In addition to applicants having the appropriate paperwork i.e. welfare or SSI, they are further scrutinized by me and required to submit proof of income or lack thereof. <br /><br />Thanks to President Bush miltary pay was raised from 5-10% across the board in December of 2002. And you are right, there is an increase for active duty. After going through my records I discovered this incident was prior to that date.
 
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