Thermostat/Flow Freezing Question

[BoatDrinksQ5]

I read a lot here about blocks cracking.... air don't freeze....antifreeze/thermostat not open concerns...AF not getting to "all of the bits"....people with poor winterize plans.


I have been reading up on this since before i got my boat....and am still loooking at it from different angles.

If i run it for 10-15 to warmup the oil for changing ....change it. Then run it for a while longer on hose. At this point i should be at a steady 160 (stat open and controlling engine temp at least half open i would think). IF i then run AF (5gal) through with a bucket/hose into muffs until plenty of pink is coming out exhaust. Plenty should have gotten into block and all bits.

Then when i go and drain all of the AF, i should be able to check the color of AF at each drain plug for confirmation of effectiveness? Compare with a sample reserved and or throw it in the freezer...lol.

Most importantly the block drains since that is what would be the most risky because AF/water mix from the control stat.

Thanks guys! .

 

[Don S]

Re: Thermostat/Flow Freezing Question

The subject has been beat to death, and in a forum, it always will be.
Just drain everything first, then run your antifreeze through it. Other wise, do it your way and report back in the spring.

 

[BoatDrinksQ5]

Re: Thermostat/Flow Freezing Question

roger that.

that part is on the list.... just didn't make it to the post. :-/ I guess that's what the checklist that i made a couple weeks is for!!! :-0

That way there will be no mixing after the Stat in the block. just trace amount of water.

drain again... happy engine

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Thermostat/Flow Freezing Question

If i run it for 10-15 to warmup the oil for changing ....change it. Then run it for a while longer on hose. At this point i should be at a steady 160 (stat open and controlling engine temp at least half open i would think).

This is for all the people that think the above works......

Your engine at operating temp, on "muffs" idling in the driveway, DOES NOT mean t-stat is FULL-OPEN. In fact, it may be nearly closed.

This is because the amount of rejected heat the engine is generating is TOTALLY dependent on how much power the engine is developing!

The engine doesn't generate A LOT of heat running at idle! SO it follows that the t-stat will not have to allow much cool raw water in to keep it at that temp. I would expect the stat to open a little and allow *some* raw water into the mix but not a lot.


OTOH, If the engine is running at a cruising RPM (pushing the boat, not unloaded on muffs in the driveway!!!) The T-stat would be open MUCH MORE.

The only way you would get the stat full-open on muffs in the driveway would be to have a dyno connected to the propshaft and run the engine at a rather high power setting. (not a good idea on muffs because most residential water systems using a 1/2"- 3/4" hose cannot provide the necessary flow)

The other way to get the stat full open with a raw water cooled engine is to run the engine using a tub that doesn't have a supply of cool water running into it.

You circulate all the (tub) water through the engine and collect it as it exits the boat...........as you run the engine the temp of the water in the tub will slowly increase. When it gets to about the same temp as the engine, the t-stat will be fully open. You could even use anti-freeze in the tub but it would take a LONG time to get to the concentration needed to protect block.

It's just MUCH easier (and safer) to just open the block/manifold drains and drain the water!

 

[Don S]

Re: Thermostat/Flow Freezing Question

I think for a year, we should all start telling everyone that asks, that it's ok to run antifreeze on muffs and forget draining, then in the spring see how many come back screaming because they have cracked blocks. Bet there will be about a 75% cracked block rating at least.

 

[achris]

Re: Thermostat/Flow Freezing Question

Having never needed to do this 'winterize' thing, I have a question.. Why do people insist on putting the drain plugs back in? To me, it's a lot safer to leave them out (any residual water can continue to drain), put the drain plugs in a placky bag tied to the ignition key, or taped to the top of the flame arrestor, or just sitting on the instrument panel... Anywhere it would draw your attention to them.... What's the big deal about putting them back in immediately?

Chris.......

 

[achris]

Re: Thermostat/Flow Freezing Question

I think for a year, we should all start telling everyone that asks, that it's ok to run antifreeze on muffs and forget draining, then in the spring see how many come back screaming because they have cracked blocks. Bet there will be about a 75% cracked block rating at least.

Love it!!!

 

[Don S]

Re: Thermostat/Flow Freezing Question

Why do people insist on putting the drain plugs back in?

1. Keeps you from loosing the plugs.
2. Keeps the threads from getting rusty and the pipe plugs not fitting back in.
3. Why not put them back? It's not going to fill up with water again.
4. For those that forget to re-install in the spring, and never look in the engine compartment, and don't have bilge pumps, it keeps them from sinking.
5. They don't forget where they go.

Other than that, no reason.

 

[achris]

Re: Thermostat/Flow Freezing Question

1. Keeps you from loosing the plugs.
2. Keeps the threads from getting rusty and the pipe plugs not fitting back in.
3. Why not put them back? It's not going to fill up with water again.
4. For those that forget to re-install in the spring, and never look in the engine compartment, and don't have bilge pumps, it keeps them from sinking.
5. They don't forget where they go.

Other than that, no reason.

ok.. #2 is valid...
#3... When I had my engine out (SO many times :facepalm, I found that the drain continues to drip for quite a long time after 'all the water was out'....

 

[Don S]

Re: Thermostat/Flow Freezing Question

I found that the drain continues to drip for quite a long time after 'all the water was out'....

During winterizing, you use a nail or screw or something to keep the hole clean while it drains. You need enclosed water that has something to push against to crack a block, a few drips are nothing. Pour some water on a large dinner plate and put it in the freezer. Nothing breaks. Put that same amount of water in a tall glass and the glass breaks.

 

[BoatDrinksQ5]

Re: Thermostat/Flow Freezing Question

I think for a year, we should all start telling everyone that asks, that it's ok to run antifreeze on muffs and forget draining.

I see that a lot posted a lot here. Are you referring to people that actually 'flush with AF' and then leave it in? Or people that don't realize its best practice to drain first then add AF (as i forgot)?

because in the end....it is all being removed anyhow via plugs and pulling main&PS cooler hoses. Air don't freeze (As stated by many, you DON'T need AF)...and most certainly AF coated metal surrounded by air don't freeze...

I suppose many people are likely to have a false sense of security from the antifreeze, and think they could cut corners. But then again, i suppose i am a guy with a 'new' boat....posting about AF.....so i suppose i am either the 25% or 75%... HAHA

 

[MWG2600]

Re: Thermostat/Flow Freezing Question

If you dont pull the plugs out (if u dont have ball valve drains!) They might get stuck and not come out, they also let all the chunks of rust out of he block. AIR dont freeze! I live in texas but i have an outboard...

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Thermostat/Flow Freezing Question

I think for a year, we should all start telling everyone that asks, that it's ok to run antifreeze on muffs and forget draining, then in the spring see how many come back screaming because they have cracked blocks. Bet there will be about a 75% cracked block rating at least.

Or more!

 

[spdracr39]

Re: Thermostat/Flow Freezing Question

Why make it complicated it's not rocket science. Just drain the water and your done.

 

[stonyloam]

Re: Thermostat/Flow Freezing Question

I LOVE my 470 this time of year, and in the spring too

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Thermostat/Flow Freezing Question

I LOVE my 470 this time of year, and in the spring too

There's something "good" about a 470?

 

[Bondo]

Re: Thermostat/Flow Freezing Question

I LOVE my 470 this time of year, and in the spring too

Ayuh,.... But there's still raw water that needs Drain', 'n the antifreeze has gotta be up to snuff...







just sayin',.......

 

[theBrownskull]

Re: Thermostat/Flow Freezing Question

If you want to run it with the antifreeze drain it out after you are done.

 

[gener8s]

Re: Thermostat/Flow Freezing Question

I have a experiment for all those concerned about residual water. Take 2 water bottles, drain one to half and leave the second full. Now, toss them into your freezer and observe the results. Freezing water will only crack a block if it has nowhere to expand to. If you drain your engine and in the process observe that only a cup full of water has come out, then you are going to have problems (I mean besides that fact your cooling system is screwed), but if you are getting a substantial amount of water draining, then you have most definatly created adaquate expansion room for an water that remains behind. Now, that being said, I do leave my engine full of AF for the winter strictly do to the fact that rust development is greatly reduced in an environment void of oxygen.