Thinking Caps On for this one...

gm280

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Okay folks, I have a problem now for well over two years (no not that problem, I had that one since birth) and I have tried everything I know and everything the ?PROs? knows as well and still haven't found the answer. I own a 4-cycle small Troy Built Rotor Tiller. It is one of those really small 4 cycle engines about the size of a weed eater. However, it worked flawlessly for about a year or more. Then one day it started pumping out oil all over the ground from the crankcase. Now this crankcase only holds about 3.2ozs of regular oil to start with. And it will pump that oil out every time I refill it. So being how I've rebuilt more engines then I can remember and transmissions and differentials as well, I figured this would be an easy fix... SMH...NO it isn't! I completely disassembled that little engine, cleaned up everything, checked everything out and reassembled everything back now about three times. And the same problem still exists. So I contacted one of the Troy Built Pros via one of those Pay-Me-Now-and-I'll-Help-You-Fix-Your-Problem type websites?NEVER AGAIN! He suggested that I had over filled the crankcase to which I stated that I used the exact amount of oil suggested in their owner?s manual that being 3.2ozs exactly. I actually bought their exact oil in one of those little bottles to be very certain I was using the correct amount AND type. Then he stated that the carb was defective and I should buy a new one? Okay, looking at that little carb and knowing that it wasn?t the problem, I rebuilt the carb anyway only to have the exact same situation?SO I actually did buy a new carb (but knew it wouldn?t solve the problem, but it was their idea) and replaced the old carb?Same problem still exists. So then he told me that the engine had too much blow-by and needed new rings. So again I bought new rings and replaced them? You guess it, same problem yet. I did everything that he stated was my problem and then he wanted more money for other PROs to chime in. I stated NO and told him I wasn?t spending one more dime with them. It seems like the crank case is pressurizing and pumping the oil out the only breather line to the intake of the air cleaner area via a little rubber tube?about an 1/8? diameter in size. But for the life of me I can?t figure out why! This tube runs from the lower crankcase to the carb intake so that the engine would/will burn off any fumes, much like a PCV valve on a car engine. But why does it now pump all the oil out and never did initially? And for the record, I have another Troy Built yard trimmer product that has the exact same engine on it and it works perfect? Any takers to what the problem can be? I also thought the crankcase had another breather somewhere to relieve any pressure but I haven?t found one yet. Also, if you were to search on the web about this problem with this Troy Built engine you will also see that I am not the only one with this same problem. I?ve read pages of others wanting answers too? Any ideas I (we) could try? :eek: :grumpy: :blue: :confused:
 

Fishing Dude too

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Re: Thinking Caps On for this one...

Clean it up, go buy a new one then return the old one. lol
 

gm280

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Re: Thinking Caps On for this one...

Clean it up, go buy a new one then return the old one. lol

Sounds like a good idea, BUT I seriously couldn't do that and live with myself after that...

Such a stupid little problem with no rhyme or reason...SMH!
 

robert graham

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Re: Thinking Caps On for this one...

Is that crankcase breather tube kinked, blocked, have a PVC/check valve in it?....
 

gm280

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Re: Thinking Caps On for this one...

Is that crankcase breather tube kinked, blocked, have a PVC/check valve in it?....

NO there really isn't any crankcase breather that I know about. And that seems like a possible issue. But the entire engine is no bigger then a weed eater type engine, except it is a 4-cycle setup. It uses regular gas without mixing. It is a very small over-head valve type with both intake and exhaust adjustable valves (they have been checked and readjusted every time - real easy to do). And when new (at least for a year or so) it run flawlessly. Then out of the blue it started pumping oil, still runs strong but now you can't keep oil in it at all. After you crank it up, in about 30 seconds oil pours out of the carb intake cover where the tube from the crankcase actually feeds. I suspect that a plugged breather in the crankcase would cause such an issue, but I have had it completely apart at least three times and haven't found one yet... The tube is opened and you can blow air through it. And that is where the oil comes out after starting. It starts very easy...but...SMH!
 
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Re: Thinking Caps On for this one...

Bad head gasket or a crack in the head that's between the exhaust and the crank case. This is just a guess.

The part that seems odd is the pressure would have to be forcing the oil up the breather and as oil doesn't float on air that would mean the breather is lower than the oil or there would have to be a major amount of pressure being released to carry the oil as a vapor up the breather tube.
 

gm280

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Re: Thinking Caps On for this one...

Bad head gasket or a crack in the head that's between the exhaust and the crank case. This is just a guess.

The part that seems odd is the pressure would have to be forcing the oil up the breather and as oil doesn't float on air that would mean the breather is lower than the oil or there would have to be a major amount of pressure being released to carry the oil as a vapor up the breather tube.

Ha thanks for the reply. I'm not going to say that can't be the problem, but being how I've disassembled this three times now and cleaned every part to new conditions I haven't seen any evidence of a cracked head, block or bad head gasket either. But I will check it a lot closer and verify for certain... I know the crankcase has to be building pressure to cause this oil pumping issue. I just can't find out why... It will most likely be something really stupid when I do find it though...always is on a tuff problem... Thanks again...I'll check!
 

DECK SWABBER 58

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Re: Thinking Caps On for this one...

This isn't helping at all but I've been a professional auto tech all my life and those little son of a guns ARE confounding. :facepalm:

Ok, now that I've properly humbled myself I'll take a wild a** guess. A hairline crack "somewhere" that can't be seen by the naked eye?

The problem is I'm just like you, I hate to throw away a perfectly good piece of equipment but....these things are relatively inexpensive and fairly good quality, if your lucky they will run long enough to get your money's worth and then you throw it away. As far as trying to fix it at some point you have to decide enough is enough.

I have some old stuff that I wouldn't do this with in a million years, it's made to last and be fixed.
 

Grub54891

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Re: Thinking Caps On for this one...

Could the bore be wore "just enough" to not seal the rings? I had a weedeater,2-stroke that suddenly died when trimming,rebuilt carb,no go,re-ringed,no go. Somehow,wish I could remember where I found the info, but the bore was wore only about 2.5 thous. Never ran again,them little things are picky,and junk.worked on a few troys at a place too, pain in the a**
Grub
 

roscoe

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21,780
Re: Thinking Caps On for this one...

Hmmmm, shorten the crankcase breather tube?

Remove the breather tube?

Seal the breather tube?

Drill a tiny hole near the top of the crankcase to relieve pressure?

Those are my ideas. What have you got to lose?
 

gm280

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Re: Thinking Caps On for this one...

Hmmmm, shorten the crankcase breather tube?

Remove the breather tube?

Seal the breather tube?

Drill a tiny hole near the top of the crankcase to relieve pressure?

Those are my ideas. What have you got to lose?

Believe me I thought of drilling a hole in the top of the crank case myself as well. And for the record, I know this is a simple throw away engine (for the most part) but I am the type to want to know WHY it started doing this more for self satisfaction then anything else...

I hate for anything to stump me... It would seem that something plugged the pressure release somewhere in the crank case (if it even has one). But finding that something is not very intuitive either... Thanks to everybody for great ideas and suggestions...
 

foodfisher

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Feb 18, 2009
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3,756
Re: Thinking Caps On for this one...

Sticky valve? Are you overfilling a not empty crankcase?
 
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Scott Danforth

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Re: Thinking Caps On for this one...

sticky rings or worn cylinder would be my first though.

our plethora of small troy-built equipment has the opposite problems, high oil consumption (smokes worse than a 2-stroke) Best I can figure is poor compression since they take about 10 pulls to start now and they are only 2 years old. The wife had them before the marriage and they were "cute" compared to my 20 year old 2-stroke weed-eater (that always started on the first pull)

just an FYI having worked in the outdoor power equipment market for a while. Nearly all of those 1.6hp 4-stroke motors come from one place. doesnt matter if it says troy built, milwaukee, ryobi, suzuki, honda, or something in chinese. They are a small disposable motor that cost the OEM about $40.

Are you getting your parts directly thru Troy-built or thru Stens? if thru Stens, then you are buying will-fit parts that may or may not fit. Sort of like Sierra riser gaskets vs Mercury riser gaskets.
 

gm280

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Re: Thinking Caps On for this one...

sticky rings or worn cylinder would be my first though.

our plethora of small troy-built equipment has the opposite problems, high oil consumption (smokes worse than a 2-stroke) Best I can figure is poor compression since they take about 10 pulls to start now and they are only 2 years old. The wife had them before the marriage and they were "cute" compared to my 20 year old 2-stroke weed-eater (that always started on the first pull)

just an FYI having worked in the outdoor power equipment market for a while. Nearly all of those 1.6hp 4-stroke motors come from one place. doesnt matter if it says troy built, milwaukee, ryobi, suzuki, honda, or something in chinese. They are a small disposable motor that cost the OEM about $40.

Are you getting your parts directly thru Troy-built or thru Stens? if thru Stens, then you are buying will-fit parts that may or may not fit. Sort of like Sierra riser gaskets vs Mercury riser gaskets.

Thanks for the reply. Actually I too thought about a worn out bore, BUT the compression is very good and it usually starts first or second pull and runs very strong too. But within seconds oil starts coming out of the tube going from the crankcase to the carb plate where the air filter installs. Maybe I should block off that tube and allow the pressure buildup force the release hole where ever it may exist in the crankcase...if there really is one...SMH!
 
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Re: Thinking Caps On for this one...

i have to ask....you are sure the crank pressure is pushing oil out and the its not the carb sucking oil out due to a plugged air filter.
 

windy5849

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237
Re: Thinking Caps On for this one...

On a conventional OHV engine,a bad head gasket could\would be blowing oil out of the breather.Since the head on this is part of the cylinder assembly,could the gasket between the block and cylinder be bad or cylinder mounting bolts loose?
 

gm280

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Re: Thinking Caps On for this one...

i have to ask....you are sure the crank pressure is pushing oil out and the its not the carb sucking oil out due to a plugged air filter.

Glenn, there is zero possibility of the carb sucking in the oil from the crankcase and here is why. The tube coming from the crankcase terminates at the plastic plate that holds the cheap form filter to the carb. I attached pictures to show how this is setup. I still believe that somehow somewhere there is a plugged breather for the crankcase pressure. Every 4-cycle engine (most any engine for that matter) develops crankcase pressure per the inherit design. So that buildup of pressure has to be relieved somehow so the engine will continue to run. I think that with this engine somehow got that relief system plugged and now the only tube from the crankcase has to push the oil out. Why they designed that tube to come from below the oil level is beyond me... Here are a few pictures, notice the red circulated areas for how the tube attaches to the carb plate...

IMG_0001.jpgIMG_0002.jpgIMG_0003.jpgIMG_0004.jpgIMG_0005.jpg
 
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Re: Thinking Caps On for this one...

oh I see that ive been looking at the wrong engine. Most of the 4 stroke ones I have seen have the crank breather coming from the head where the OHV is stamped on it. Yours is coming from lower in the block so like most forum posts we started with half the info and went in the wrong direction. How about posting the model number and a link where we can get a explosion diagram of the the motor and parts list so we can take another look at it.
 

levittownnick

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789
Re: Thinking Caps On for this one...

What does the engine do if you plug this line while the engine is running?
I don't have a solution but it may give a hint as to what is happening.
 
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