tilt and trim wiring help

[bonz_d]

Here is what I have found so far. The remote has the trim switch which has 3 wires which then goes under the helm and is then wired into a 5 wire cable, 2 of which I believe goes to the gauge. This cable then goes to a round 5 pin plug. This setup was originally connected to a 1988 Evinrude 70hp.

I now have a 1987 50hp with PTT. This has a 4 pole square connector with 3 12 ga. wires, red, blue and black that goes to the pump motor. Then there is a 14 ga. black wire that goes to the cylinder opposite the pump.

So after a few searches here and on the web it looks like there should be a relay or a solenoid of which I can't seem to locate one on this engine. So what am I missing and how do I connect the 2 different plugs?

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: tilt and trim wiring help

at a guess I would say that the tilt/trim on the 50hp is older than a 87. A 3 wire pump is wired different but my advice would be to install a relay box (do you still have the 70hp one?). The relay box is simple so you can build one if needed.
The other option is to install it as originally designed (solenoid) but that means changing out your tilt switch as the modern relay ones can not handle the current required by the older ones.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: tilt and trim wiring help

I do know that the tilt/trim units are different between the 2 cylinder engines and the 3 cylinder engines. From what I've been able to determine from BRP website is this is the correct unit for a 1987 J50TELCUD.

Yes I do still have the 70hp PTT unit and it is complete.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: tilt and trim wiring help

Upon further investigation of BRP this is what else I've found. The control with tilt/trim for both the 50hp and the 70hp both have the same part number. The cable lead from the remote switch to the wire harness is also the same part number. The wire harness from the remote connector to the engine is different. The 70hp uses a 2 wire lead from the pump and the 50hp uses a 3 wire lead. The 70hp parts breakdown shows a junction box and the relay, the 50hp shows nothing. No relay or solenoid unless I'm looking in the wrong section for it.

 

[James R]

Re: tilt and trim wiring help

The 50HP motor did not use a switch in the control lever but per the manual, used a separate heavy duty momentary switch which could handle the current for the motor or a relay unit mounted on the deck. Your switch in the control lever from the 70hp is light duty and needs to switch a relay unit to power the motor.
You can find a used three wire relay unit on the net. The connectors are not the same so some cutting and connecting will be needed. Mount the relay box in the motor.
Not difficult to do

 

[bonz_d]

Re: tilt and trim wiring help

Thanks James R, So then why does the BRP parts breakdown show the remote for the 1987 50hp as having the switch in the handle with the same part number as the 70hp.? The 1983 and earlier model parts brakedown does show a remote switch that would be dash mounted. This also uses a different wire harness and connectors than the 1984 and later units.

Dang I need a manual! Have been looking though all of BRP and the wire cable for the 84 and later in NLA yet all the terminals and connectors are. I may need to make my own. Still can't find a relay listed either.

May just have to go spend the day with my old friend at Dicks Marine, the old man is sharp.

 

[keefallan]

Re: tilt and trim wiring help

Is the pump motor the same size dimensionally(same mounts too)? If they are the same size, why not swap them out? Then you can just swap out the relay box to the other motor and you'll be good to go. I just don't know if the motor's are the same(mount and drive piece). I've done my share of custom making trim relay systems. I can help you with that if you need. You just have to let nme know what the red black and blue wires are for on the 50hp. I had to design/build a system for my volvo motor(gave it to a friend) because I wasn't going to spend the money they wanted(250 I think) for a couple of relays. Just get back to me if you want my help.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: tilt and trim wiring help

trim units between the 50 and 70 are completely different will not interchange.

Red or green are down, blue is up, black is ground.

 

[keefallan]

Re: tilt and trim wiring help

Actually, I a little nervous about telling you to do anything with the wires because of there being more than just a blue and green going to the motor. In the other setups, the motor is just a reversing motor(switch the polarity of the wires blue and green). I am assuming that your 50hp is the same. That's what bothers me. If that's the case, why does the red have to be there at all? So, I can't assume that. The black doesn't bother me. If you can find out what the red is there for, I can draw up a schematic for a relay system. If not, Then maybe someone out there has the electrical schematic for your motor. I know that in a 2 lead motor, I used 2 relays(just like OMC used come to find out later)to isolate the large current drawing wires from the trim wiring at the dash. The red/blue/green(in the dash wiring) are not designed to carry the motor load, so a relay system must be incorporated.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: tilt and trim wiring help

I completely understand which is why I'm trying to find out as much as possible. From what I've read elswhere the 3 wire motor uses only one relay or solenoid of which I still haven't been able to determine or just where in the wiring scheme it fits.
As I've said so far I've looked into 3 different setups used with these systems and each one had a different wire arrangement.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: tilt and trim wiring help

Let's see if I can get this right and so that it is understandable.

The cable assembly that is NLA is part # 0582761 and this is what it consists of.

1 fused lead with eye, positive +
1 unfused lead with eye, negative -
1 connector motor side, 4 leads, three 12 ga, red, blue, black + one 14 ga blk sending unit
1 connector control side, this piece only shows 1 terminal req'd which can't be right because there are 3 leads coming from the switch.
1 lead with eye to trim gauge.

No mention of a relay or solenoid. So I have already figured that I will have to remove the present cable as it is completely different and has a 5 pin terminal on the motor end.

Does this help anyone else.

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: tilt and trim wiring help

the 3 wire only used a solenoid for the up function as that required a large amount of amps. The down function was lower amps so the switch could handle it. I have never seen a 2 wire trim switch that could handle the amps required to run a 3 wire trim unit so I checked the part numbers and you are correct that they are list as the same. The 3 wire use to use a toggle switch which was larger and able to handle the addition current. I personally would just add 2 relays unless I had a relay control box laying around then all the rewire is under the cowling and it will work fine. The black wire is a ground then when power is applied to the red it goes down and when power is applied to the blue it goes up.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: tilt and trim wiring help

In 1989 they changed the whole design again so what I have was only used from 1984 - 1988. I have seen a couple pictures of the 89 setup and yes there is a relay inside the cowling.

This 1987 on the front were the 2 grommets are located, one side has position for the throttle and shift cable and the other is formed for the 2 battery cables and 1 ignition cable.

I am assuming that the pos and neg terminals are connecting to the relay/solenoid and then the relay is also pulling power from the battery. Sound right?

 

[keefallan]

Re: tilt and trim wiring help

Now that it's clear what the leads are. I'm sending you a PM.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: tilt and trim wiring help

Now that it's clear what the leads are. I'm sending you a PM.

Thanks, much appreciated!

Was able to find these.
http://forums.iboats.com/johnson-ev...johnson-trim-tilt-wiring-question-526361.html
http://forums.iboats.com/johnson-evinrude-outboards/wiring-trim-3-wire-50hp-johnson-186311.html

I think the 1st link will be the most helpful. Also as I stated it looks as though all the plugs and terminal ends are available through BRP.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: tilt and trim wiring help

Now that it's clear what the leads are. I'm sending you a PM.

Got your PM are you available for a call tomorrow? If so let me know a good time.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: tilt and trim wiring help

Thanks to all! Finally getting a feel for what I've got and what I need.

I understand now that I am going to have to make my own harness which shouldn't be too hard. The questions I have remaining are wire size and wire connection to the sonlenoid relay.

The 3 wires coming from the motor are 12 ga. and the 3 coming from the switch to the connector look to be 14 ga. while the leads to te gauge look to be 16ga. It also appears that I can mount the solenoid under the splash well and make all my connections there.