Tilt /trim not working

[dallaspaco]

I bought a boat with a 1988 force 125 motor on it.The trim/ tilt does not work.When I bought it there was a plug on the side of the hydraulic motor missing{not the fill plug,but beneath it and to the right of it} so I plugged it.I am trying to purge the air out like the manual says with no success.I can move the motor up and down with little or no resistance from the cylinders or the fluid in the lines,with all the plugs in.There are no leaks that I am detecting.I remove the fill plug,raise and lower the motor 3-5 times to remove air from system,and while the motor is raised,I fill the reservoir and install the drain plug.I have tried this at least 5 times and I can still raise and lower the motor with no resistance,so I assume it is air in the system still.Any help would be appreciated....thank you

 

[RRitt]

Re: Tilt /trim not working

internally the system should be airtight as well as fluid tight. If you filled it entirely with air you still could not move it. Air is soft and compressible so you system would be bouncy. However, it would not move.

If it was a 1992-1995 then i would guess a blown out trim and/or tilt piston ring. But 1988 was before Mercury. Maybe a mercury mechanic used some cheap mercury atf in the system? Was the fluid red? If the fluid was not red then there is no easy explanation for a system that moves freely. It could be a botched home repair, the check valves could have blown apart, the tilt bypass valve could be rusted out, the valve body could have gone dry and something in there rusted out, or .. the piston rings could still be blown.

I'm thinking of running an end-of-season rebuild batch. These darn systems take a ton of time to rebuild. A really good rebuild is like 20 hours per system. But if you do eight systems at once then it only take like 60 hours or so. So I'm thinking that if there are eight people who need rebuild then maybe a batch run for end of season makes sense. Then it isn't a problem that the system doesn't come back for a month or so.

But now I ramble. Use your manual and look into the above suggestions. First make sure your fluid is tannish colored oil. If red then assume that all of your rubber and stuff is eaten up from inside. If tan then disconnect pump and plug all tubes. See if system still moves. The rams in a modestly maintained system should be good for 30+ years.

 

[foodfisher]

Re: Tilt /trim not working

Fill it in the down position

 

[dallaspaco]

Re: Tilt /trim not working

The fluid is sae 30 oil that I am putting in.I will try what you guys suggested tomorrow.Was I correct in plugging that second hole..My manual doesn't even mention it.

 

[dallaspaco]

Re: Tilt /trim not working

I plugged the line and now it is stiff as a board.So that means the trouble is in the pump,right?Are there any more tests /checks that I can do or should i just tear it apart and see what it looks like in there?...thanks

 

[foodfisher]

Re: Tilt /trim not working

I'd search more of RRitt's posts before tearing into the valve body. It's a touchy process with special skills needed. 30 wt. NON detergent, right?

 

[dallaspaco]

Re: Tilt /trim not working

I have taken my tilt/trim motor apart.I have a picture attachedto help out.I have found that if I blow air into hole #1 then it will come out of hole #2.But if I blow air into hole #3 it does NOT come out of hole #4.Am I correct in thinking that it should,and if it should what is the fix for this problem?I am not sure if the screw on the end should come out or not...thanks again

 

[RRitt]

Re: Tilt /trim not working

Please attach pictures of system. The part in picture above is not factory original. I have suspicions but want to see pictures before saying anything.

 

[dallaspaco]

Re: Tilt /trim not working

I assume you wanted pictures of the pump,because the trim and tilt cylinders look normal.

 

[RRitt]

Re: Tilt /trim not working

I think your manual release plug is missing or broken. It is a tapered nylon piece that goes into side of manifold. It has a large circlip that serves some purpose I can't ever remember. (Keeps you from screwing it in too far or something like that). You can get it from a mercury dealer for about $40 or so.

Mercury sold that as a replacement kit for prestolite pumps. It included unpainted stainless tubing, wiring harness, relays, and pump. Most of the parts are priced somewhere between highway robbery and rape. If the problems extends much beyond missing nylon plug then it might be cheaper to throw it away & get prestolite or eaton.

 

[dallaspaco]

Re: Tilt /trim not working

rritt...pm sent

 

[dallaspaco]

Re: Tilt /trim not working

Thanks rrhitt that was the main problem.Now I can't seem to get all the air out of the lines.When I go up on the motor,the trim works perfect,but the tilt will go so far and then bog down.At that point ,I can help and lift the motor all the way up.The down works perfect.I am just wandering if I can be putting the air in the lines by "helping " the motor,or if the air in the lines is what is keeping the motor from doing it's job right?What should I try next to see if I can fix this.thanks again

 

[RRitt]

Re: Tilt /trim not working

I am so tired of telling people that air in lines has no effect. If it makes you happy, then bleed the system. You system either lifts until it runs out of fluid or it is broken.

 

[dallaspaco]

Re: Tilt /trim not working

Ooouuucchhhhhhh

 

[SOUTHFORCE]

Re: Tilt /trim not working

Tilt/trim Not Working. Goes Down But Not Up. My Understanding Is It Is Broken As I Read The Posts. Mine Is A 95 120 Force Oe113683. It Appears That There Are More Than 1 And Some Are Better That Others For Replacement. Is It Best To Replace The Entire Tilt/trim System As Opposed To Rebuilding And If So What Is The Best To Replace With. Also Ballpark Price For The Works And Is It Difficult To Take Off And Put Back On.

 

[RRitt]

Re: Tilt /trim not working

Tilt/trim Not Working. Goes Down But Not Up. My Understanding Is It Is Broken As I Read The Posts. Mine Is A 95 120 Force Oe113683. It Appears That There Are More Than 1 And Some Are Better That Others For Replacement. Is It Best To Replace The Entire Tilt/trim System As Opposed To Rebuilding And If So What Is The Best To Replace With. Also Ballpark Price For The Works And Is It Difficult To Take Off And Put Back On.

check relays first. your type of system typically costs $130-$200 to rebuild.

 

[SOUTHFORCE]

Re: Tilt /trim not working

can you post a diagram showing where the relays are. also, where is the manual relief to lower and lift in the event i need to prevent getting stranded. i talked with a mechanic this am and he is saying typically the 95 model like i have showed few problems with t/t. i have had the boat for about 8 yrs and all has been well except i had to add t/t fluid occasionally-always worked fine when i did that but gradually lost ability to lift. i have always used the walmart brand t/t. i am just into the shrimping season and i hate to send it in to repair right now. once season is over i would like to repair and place motor on a bay style boat. motor has always operated well. smokey but reliable to get me there and back. thanks for any help.

 

[RRitt]

Re: Tilt /trim not working

"shrimping season" eh? Unless those are freshwater shrimp i would guess that you have rusting out valves between pump manifold and ram. Once off the boat you're probably looking at $200 and 2 weeks.

 

[SOUTHFORCE]

Re: Tilt /trim not working

so i would be better off buying the shrimp and staying in fresh water. so far all have had a good time and plenty of shrimp. hopefully i can work my way up to a better rig. meantime, could you show me where the release is so if i need to manually go up or down i can decrease my chances of getting stranded.

 

[jhs5150]

Re: Tilt /trim not working

The relays should be mounted to the bottom case of the motor near the front on the right if you are in the boat facing the motor with the cover off. Face the carbs straight on, then look down and to the right. There are two of them, 1 for up, 1 for down. If one works and the other doesn't you can swap the connectors between them and see if that is the problem. If it is you can get the relays NAPA or most auto parts stores for around $15 bucks. Buy 2 and keep one as a spare in case one fails at the most inopportune time. Don't forget the switch on your console. If it is bad you'll only have power 1 way. Switching the relay connectors will verify this also.
Good Luck.