Tilt/Trim System Bleeding

[dwelch022]

I have 1999 Johnson 150 hp. My trim/tilt sytem was kind of hesitant to go up after a fishing trip last week. After inspecting the unit I notice that one of the outer seals on my trim rod cap came completely off draining most of the fluid in the system. After removing the cap and replacing the seal I drained all the existing fluid in the system and replaced with ATF Dexron 3. Put the caps back on and lift the motor up to full tilt position and added fluid to the reservoir. Next I maually let the motor down and lifted back up to add more fluid. A little fluid was coming out so I let it down a little to add more fluid but it didn't really take much fluid. Let the motor down again manually then lifted back up. When I took the fill cap off the fluid starts to come out. Can someone please help me out with this and let me know what I am doing wrong because I can't get the motor to raise up when I hit the switch. Nor will it take anymore fluid. By the way the motor sounds fine!

THanks

 

[dwelch022]

Re: Tilt/Trim System Bleeding

Can anyone help me out with this?

 

[boobie]

Re: Tilt/Trim System Bleeding

Dumb question ?? Is your manual release valve tight ??

 

[dwelch022]

Re: Tilt/Trim System Bleeding

Dumb question ?? Is your manual release valve tight ??

I don't see how that's a dumb question. I have lift my motor up before with the manual release valve in the open position and it raised up. All it did was just fall back down. If I'm asking a question obviously I need help and not as experienced as you with the situation that I'm in. So please don't be negative. Thanks for the help anyways.

So you're saying the trim/tilt won't work at all without the manual release being tight?

 

[retiredfornow]

Re: Tilt/Trim System Bleeding

With the manual release open, lift your motor to the up position, then lock it in place. Close the release valve, pretty tightly, then fill the resevoir if it's not full. Raise the motor and remove the lock holding it up. Then use your switch to try to lower it. Raise and lower with the switch several times, lock it in the up position and remove the resevoir cap. Let the air bleed out and refill again. Do this several times. You're trying to bleed the air out of the system. Good luck.

 

[dwelch022]

Re: Tilt/Trim System Bleeding

With the manual release open, lift your motor to the up position, then lock it in place. Close the release valve, pretty tightly, then fill the resevoir if it's not full. Raise the motor and remove the lock holding it up. Then use your switch to try to lower it. Raise and lower with the switch several times, lock it in the up position and remove the resevoir cap. Let the air bleed out and refill again. Do this several times. You're trying to bleed the air out of the system. Good luck.

Thanks for the advice. When you say remove the lock, are you talking about releasing the manual valve? Sorry if I sound dumb, but I'm kind of new to this!

 

[RRitt]

Re: Tilt/Trim System Bleeding

when you open the manual release the engine will raise by hand. it still has air in it and may not stay in place. You should securely block or lock the engine in place for safety. Once secure, firmly tighten the manual release but not so firm as to cause any thread or fitting damage. Now that your engine is safely locked into the raised position you can stick your hands under it without risk of getting hurt. After filling with fluid, you need to cycle system up and down to bleed it. You have to remove or open the tilt lock in order to cycle it. after a few ups and downs wait a minute for the bubbles to disperse, check fluid levels, and repeat. 1 or 2 times is usually enough but sometimes if there is a lot of air and gravity is keeping it in the rams ... sometimes it can take 4 or 5 cycles with generous pauses in between. this can be generally avoided by pouring fluid into the ram housing so that there aren't any air bubbles under piston.

 

[sutor623]

Re: Tilt/Trim System Bleeding

I don't see how that's a dumb question. I have lift my motor up before with the manual release valve in the open position and it raised up. All it did was just fall back down. If I'm asking a question obviously I need help and not as experienced as you with the situation that I'm in. So please don't be negative.

Dude, Boobie was saying that HE was possibly asking a dumb question(because he doesn't know how much you know about boats). He wasn't giving you hell. Trust me if he wanted to be a jerk he'd have just not responded your question in the first place. He has helped lots of us folks on here, including myself and best thing you can do as a new guy is be nice. I'd sure want a retired marine mechanic on my side if I were you. Plus I think he's a moderator now.

 

[dwelch022]

Re: Tilt/Trim System Bleeding

Dude, Boobie was saying that HE was possibly asking a dumb question(because he doesn't know how much you know about boats). He wasn't giving you hell. Trust me if he wanted to be a jerk he'd have just not responded your question in the first place. He has helped lots of us folks on here, including myself and best thing you can do as a new guy is be nice. I'd sure want a retired marine mechanic on my side if I were you. Plus I think he's a moderator now.

Well sorry Boobie, I didn't understand where you were coming from. I'm fairly new to boating and to this forum. Didn't mean to come off rude.

 

[dwelch022]

Re: Tilt/Trim System Bleeding

when you open the manual release the engine will raise by hand. it still has air in it and may not stay in place. You should securely block or lock the engine in place for safety. Once secure, firmly tighten the manual release but not so firm as to cause any thread or fitting damage. Now that your engine is safely locked into the raised position you can stick your hands under it without risk of getting hurt. After filling with fluid, you need to cycle system up and down to bleed it. You have to remove or open the tilt lock in order to cycle it. after a few ups and downs wait a minute for the bubbles to disperse, check fluid levels, and repeat. 1 or 2 times is usually enough but sometimes if there is a lot of air and gravity is keeping it in the rams ... sometimes it can take 4 or 5 cycles with generous pauses in between. this can be generally avoided by pouring fluid into the ram housing so that there aren't any air bubbles under piston.

Thanks for the advice. I'll give it a try!

 

[boobie]

Re: Tilt/Trim System Bleeding

No problem. No offense taken. As the old saying goes, " lack of communication is 95 % of the worlds problems ".

 

[dwelch022]

Re: Tilt/Trim System Bleeding

I tried some of the methods mentioned above and got some but little success. I removed the reservoir cap today after I was unable to add more fluid 2 days ago and was able to add a significant amount of fluid after tilting and trimming the motor about 3 times. The success I got was that the motor no longer falls all the way down. It falls but just above the two tilt rods. I can now press the down button on the motor and the motor goes all the way down slowly. When I hit the button to let the motor up it moves up slowly and skips while lifting until it stops lifting at a certain point. I could not put anymore fluid into the reservoir so I decided the let it sit until tomorrow to see if I can add more fluid. Do you guys think their is air still in the system and what am I doing wrong?

Remember I completely drained the system before adding fluid. Can this be the problem?

 

[boobie]

Re: Tilt/Trim System Bleeding

You're right, it sounds like air.

 

[dwelch022]

Re: Tilt/Trim System Bleeding

You're right, it sounds like air.

Boobie do you think it's taking so long to bleed the system because I completely drained it?

 

[RRitt]

Re: Tilt/Trim System Bleeding

sounds like your system is low on fluid. systems low on fluid lift until they run out of fluid and just stop there. jumpy movement is typically because the system is low on fluid and sucking air bubbles into the pump.

The two other hydraulic problems are leaky check valves and malfunctioning pressure relief.

System with bad check valves go up fine but drift down with enough time until the engine is fully lowered.

Systems with bad relief valves go up and then drift down until the relief valve is in equilibrium. They hold at that level indefinitely. If you push down on prop then will will drop further. In some cases the relief valve malfunction is such that engines do not generate enough psi to lift and can be mistaken for low fluid. The two problems can be distinguished by watching for bleed down and pushing on the prop. Low fluid does not fully lift but it is rock solid without drift.

 

[dwelch022]

Re: Tilt/Trim System Bleeding

Good news and bad news. The good news is I finally got the trim/tilt system to work. I held the trim up button and added fluid until it took no more and it worked like a charm. The bad news is when I raise the motor all the way up until it cant go anymore my motor always gets stuck in the up position and have to get it down by turning the manual release valve. This always happened even before I change the seals so it's not nothing new. The problem is that the manual release valve screw is now stripped to the point I can't turn it anymore. Any suggestions on how to get it out?

 

[boobie]

Re: Tilt/Trim System Bleeding

I'd recommend taking it to a machine shop. Or else try some left handed drill bits. Don't forget to remove the snap ring first and stay away from E-Z Outs..

 

[dwelch022]

Re: Tilt/Trim System Bleeding

Thanks Boobie. I'm taking in to an outboard repair shop in the morining to see if they can get it out.

 

[boobie]

Re: Tilt/Trim System Bleeding

Let us know what they come up with. Hands on are eaiser than trying to help on a computer.

 

[dwelch022]

Re: Tilt/Trim System Bleeding

Will do!