Tragic news from the 4th

[sbbamafan]

My heart goes out to the family / friends of the 3 children that drowned after watching the 4th of July fireworks in the Long Island Sound last night. BUT - am I the only one that is furious over how many people there were in the boat. From what I understand a 34' Silverton with 27 people on board capsized. I looked to no avail this morning to find the capacity of such a vessel - but I have to assume it was grossly overloaded.

So many accidents I hear about are due to being overloaded or some other idiotic violation of common sense. This is not inclusive of people drinking and operating a boat while impaired - that is another rant.

Even when the overloaded boat is not at fault in these accidents, certainly the driver is easily distracted and trying to focus on too many things and/or people at the same time. Specifically I am, in part, referring to the tragedy that occurred in Lake Lanier a couple of weeks ago. A pontoon boat was crossing the lake after dark and was hit by a center console operated by a driver that had been drinking. Two children were killed - how horrific! The 2 kids were on a pontoon boat with their parents and others. From what I recall the pontoon boat was 22' long with 13 people on board. Now please don't misunderstand me, the operator of the pontoon boat is not at fault in what happened as, who knows the details of what the other boat's operator was doing, thinking or his level of alcohol induced impairment he was under - but I cant help but think if there had been less people on the pontoon boat, this whole incident might have been avoided as the pontoon operator MIGHT have been less distracted with less people on board. He might have seen or heard the other boat in time to take action to avoid the center console.

Sorry to rant - just tired of hearing about fatalities due (in some part) to people not having common sense to take care of themselves and/or operate a boat within the vessels' guidelines. Again - my heart goes out to those who lost loved ones.

 

[spoilsofwar]

Re: Tragic news from the 4th

As long as theres been boats, people have been dying on them as a result of stupidity (to include intoxication). It won't ever stop, so best you can hope for is some standoff between you and the crazies, and to be like the other boat in the NYC incident that came over to the capsized Silverton, threw his life jackets into the water, and then pulled people into his boat.

Its terrible when its kids who pay the price for the adult's stupidity, though.

 

[25thmustang]

Re: Tragic news from the 4th

I caught rumors of this incident today. Had family out on the sound when it happened.

As the owner of a 34' Silverton, 27 people is far too many. We had 10 adults and 2 kids the other night, and that was a bit cramped. Over doubling that number is asking for trouble!

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Tragic news from the 4th

same thing happens with 10 people in a minivan that wrecks on the highway, although here, if the boat capsized, there is a direct cause and effect. I bet they all went to one side to see the fireworks. Also it's deceiving when you think about the length size 60% at least is taken up with cabin; the whole gang is jammed topside in small spaces.

 

[Aquaman-PSD]

Re: Tragic news from the 4th

I am a diver on a very large water rescue agency. Unfortunatly the job of recovering the men women and children that fail to resurface after an acident like this falls on our shoulders. In all the recoveries I've done of kids and adults all but one has been in one form or another impacted by drugs or alcohol. Its hard to swallow sometimes when you see people drag racing on the river with a beer in thier hand while a family of 5 chugs down the same river on a pontoon boat. There is no excuse for accidents like this but I'm sure the driver/owner of the boat doesn't need us to tell thim that.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Tragic news from the 4th

You won't find a "capacity" number for that boat because it doesn't have one. I believe they quit posting capacity limits on boats over 22' or something like that.

 

[etracer68]

Re: Tragic news from the 4th

As far as I know, boats of that size, dont have capacity limit plates. Common sense is relative. I also have seen boats overloaded, and just think, What can the operator be thinking.

Its tragic that lives were lost.

 

[zevi]

Re: Tragic news from the 4th

Its terrible when its kids who pay the price for the adult's stupidity

So very true and unfortunate! That is the most heartwrenching part of this tragedy.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Tragic news from the 4th

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...-yacht-capsizes-off-long-island-new-york?lite

 

[Justin9491]

Re: Tragic news from the 4th

In my experience. On land an off. Paying attention to others driving habits is the difference between a safe trip to work and lying in a casket. Dont worry about your driving. Worry about others. It is unfortunate that people die on boats seeing as theyre meant for good times

 

[QC]

Re: Tragic news from the 4th

Boat capacity is a complicated discussion. I have often referred to the Length x Width / 15 Calc. Which in the case of this Silverton would be interestingly enough . . . 27. That's 34 x 12 / 15. Anyway. . . it is nowhere near that simple. Here is the best reference doc I have seen regarding capacity, but it is also inconclusive and not written by a legal authority i.e. Coast Guard.

http://newboatbuilders.com/docs/BoatCapacityVSAvailableSeating.pdf

 

[Ned L]

Re: Tragic news from the 4th

That was a tragic loss that any 'normal' level of common sense should have avoided. I am actually somewhat suprised that the Silverton stayed upright as long as it did (and didn't capsize before even leaving the slip). Grossly overloaded by 2 - 3 times what would be getting to be 'uncomfortable'.
There is no point in discussing this in terms of vessel stabilty or how many people can you carry on a boat like this. It had very little to do with the overall weight, and everything to do with where the weight was on the boat (and the level of all the tanks, etc, etc,), and there would have to be an understanding of the difference between a list and a loll. --Too many variables to even speculate.

 

[laserbrn]

Re: Tragic news from the 4th

Common sense. I don't need a "capacity plate" to let me know how many peopel can safely fit on a boat. Go on the boat, if it's crowded, get the heck off that boat! A crowded boat in my experience is an over loaded boat. From a 14' - 64' boat if it's cramped and you feel crowded, you're overloaded. 3 big guys on a 14' boat will feel cramped and uncomfortable. 3 small girls on a 14' boat will likely feel just fine. Boat feels the same way. You can just tell and if you've been on a 34' boat, 27 people is laughable. Especially a cabin cruiser with no one down below. This was a disaster waiting to happen unfortunately. 27 people on top of the deck cramming to one side to see the fireworks. If they could see themselves from a birds eye view it would look obvious they were trying to flip the boat. Sad situation unfortunately.

 

[QC]

Re: Tragic news from the 4th

Despite my posting of the capacity info, I agree with the last two posts almost completely. I was a little confused by this:

Boat feels the same way.

FWIW, I posted that capacity link as info since the topic is so misunderstood, and people always ask about capacity plates, talk length and legality etc. etc. In no way am I suggesting that the formula resulting in 27 for a 34 footer indicates smooth sailing. Not even close!!

 

[laserbrn]

Re: Tragic news from the 4th

I wrote that response from my phone. It's funny that when I wrote it I didn't realize I was writing in short little sentences. I just mean that if you feel like "damn this boat is overloaded and crowded. It would feel better if there were 3 less people on here", then the boat feels the same way. The way it handles and the way it sits, it wishes there were 3 less people too! The more crowded, the more unhappy the boat is.

 

[Vegas Naturist]

Re: Tragic news from the 4th

...and of course all the kids were wearing PFD's weren't they?

 

[QC]

Re: Tragic news from the 4th

A reminder that speculation can kill threads like this. What I have read is that the three kids that died were in the cabin. PFD could actually make escape harder in that situation, and probably worth noting that it is not required for children to wear a PFD if they are in the cabin as well. This, in no way, is suggesting that PFDs are bad. Kind of like the one in 100,000 car wreck where the lack of a seat belt made a positive difference. No matter how we all feel, we don't know what happened here. And even if he/she was an idiot at the helm, I have some serious sympathy for that person. They will have to live, and die, with this.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Tragic news from the 4th

recall the post I put up from around Memorial day about the 24' center console that capsized with 10 people on board--within the tag limits. But 5 guys were up in the tower they had added to the boat, and they made a hard turn.

Capacity by weight or # of people, whether by tag or formula, is not a definition of "safe" for all circumstances. I'll bet that once again the root cause was the inexperienced boat owner (and for other incidents, alcohol makes boaters act inexperienced).

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Tragic news from the 4th

Very sad story.... Prayers go out the families affected by the accidents this holiday!

We absolutely love the our family time (of 4) on the water. We often discuss inviting friends more often but i feel it will distract me as an operator from staying aware and protecting my loved ones from potential problems. Almost every time we go out I feel like i am on the defense. Maneuvering, speeding up, slowing down, changing directions, all to avoid someone not paying attention.

Just last night we saw a 22ish foot pontoon boat that had soooo many people on board kid's were sitting in laps. I lost count at 20. Driver was paying so much attention to passengers no way he could be operating safely. They were coming ashore at dusk with a tube in tow. Sad to think they were tubing with all those folks aboard.

 

[ufm82]

Re: Tragic news from the 4th

I must take issue with the argument about # of people and distractions. While it is possible that having a lot of people on board can contribute to the issue, you cannot condider a boater with a lot of people on board irresponsible or distracted. In fact, if the passengers are aware of how to behave while on board they will have no impact on the driver's attention level. Simply because you see a pontoon boat with 13 people on it means little. Being in an area where crowded waters are the norm I can attest to the fact that it takes only 1 person to distract the driver, especially when the other person is the opoosite sex...