Training Aggressive Dog

mscher

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Apr 21, 2004
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We have a 2 year old male Border Collie mix, that has become VERY aggressive towards visitors, even children. This aggressive behaviour, frightens visitors and worries us, as he growls and nips, but fortunately has not bitten anyone, accept me.

After a few minutes, he is fine and completely calm with the visitors, for the rest of the time they are here.

Sammy is an indoor/outdoor dog, treated well. He is leashed trained, but will ignore commands to stop, if a car door opens, or kid walks up the driveway. He was neutered two months ago, since we thought, the nads may be contributing, but it has gott a little worse since.

Obviously, this behaviour cannot continue, but we are not sure where to begin. I'll hire a pro, if needed, but am looking for ideas and some steps, to get things under control.

Any input appreciated.
 

Gary H NC

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Dec 1, 2005
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8,972
Re: Training Aggressive Dog

Border Collies can be aggressive,my neighbor has one that acts very similar.
Have you tried a dog crate?
When people come over he goes in the crate if he even shows a hint of aggression.Other than just tying him up i think the crate may help.
You don't want him to bite a child.The trauma the child will have and the chance your dog will be put down if the Police are involved.
Just my opinion but i have owned many dogs..:)
 

qaztwo

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Jun 26, 2004
Messages
384
Re: Training Aggressive Dog

This works on my dogs.
When they go into the red zone as I call it I roll them onto there back infront of what ever is making them go crazy. I keep them there untill they calm down. It works for the most part, my lab still goes crazy over squirels.
 

Kenneth Brown

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Feb 3, 2003
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3,481
Re: Training Aggressive Dog

I love dogs but I gotta say Mr Smith or Mr Wesson might be the only correct choice here. I had a boxer that was one of the best dogs ever. I had him for about 5 years and one day he just flipped out and attacked a goat. As I was pulling him off he decided he would nip at me to make me change my mind. 9mm Black Talons do work extremely well.
 

Scaaty

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Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
5,180
Re: Training Aggressive Dog

Only 2?..lock it up until older..aint no way YOU will teach a dog what to do, if "ingrained"...it will go away in time. BC's got ENERGY..need ROOM.
My last Golden Retriver was fine. One now?..(not 4 yet) If I let her go, EVERYONE A NEW FRIEND..on miles of Ocean front...would not see her for days.."Greeting" a new friend. Yours still a pup...let it get older...its just exploring the "limits"...make some....just be gentle...age will drop the "madness"..but they need a good.."run"...needs a BIG yard to work it off..(fenced)
 

ondarvr

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Apr 6, 2005
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11,527
Re: Training Aggressive Dog

There are few methods you can attempt to fix this situation. I think you should definitely at least talk to a professional about this problem. We can't see exactly how the dog is acting. A professional can come into your home and assess the situation in a way that we over the internet cannot.

Second, please try to understand that dogs behaving aggressively is just another way for them to communicate. Is it appropriate? Of course not. But he is telling you something. He is telling you he is upset, afriad, angry, or feeling territorial in the presence of visitors.

That said, please do not correct your dog for aggression problems. This includes hitting, kicking, yelling, leash jerks, "alpha rolls", or even a stern look. There are a variety or reasons for this. First off, aggression will do nothing to fix the dog's feelings about this situation. You are simply correcting the behavior, not changing the dog's negative feelings. For example - you yell, give a leash jerk, or bop a dog on the nose for growling. You may stop the dog from growling, but he's not feeling any less aggressive. He'll probably just stop growling and go to snapping or snarling next. You correct the snarling and snapping? Well next time he'll bite. This leads to the "biting without warning" thing. The dog was warning people before, but was corrected for communicating... so now he has to step up the behavior to hopefully get the result he's looking for.

Also, punishing a behavior that already has a negative connection is going to make the dog feel even more ill at ease. If the dog is corrected whenever visitors come over - he'll likely associate the visitors with the corrections, which will just compound his negative association with them. It's very possible and very common for dog's aggression problems to escalate when punishment or corrections is used in an attempt to curb the behavior. Instead of just growling when they come in the door, he could easily start getting upset when he hears them in the driveway, or escalate to snapping when they're in the house.

Not only that, but it's very likely your relationship with the dog will be damaged through the use of heavy aversives. A dog will easily start to distrust and dislike someone who often times talks to them sternly, gives them leash jerks, hits or kicks them, or yells at them.

Visitors in your home are obviously creating a fairly intense emotional response in your dog. You want him to associate the strangers with something other than fear, anger, or the desire to protect something. You want to pair the arrival of visitors with something he wants really, really, badly. It has to be something extremely desirable. Not just a biscuit, but hot dog slices or moist liver treats. Not just a toy, but an exciting session of his favorite game. Not only that, he has to ONLY recieve that desirable thing when visitors are around. He shouldn't be getting it at any other time.

You want to start this 'game' when the visitors are hopefully not producing an all out aggressive display in him. Start with someone just pulling into the driveway... produce the desirable object, and continue to give it to him until they leave. When they are gone, remove the toy or treat, and wait again until a new visitor arrives. After a few repeats, he will associate someone pulling into the driveway as play or treat time. Escalate it to someone walking up to the door. Then someone knocking. Then someone entering the house.

You want to always be giving the dog the treat, or game. It may sometimes feel like you are rewarding aggressive displays, but you really need to create the correlation of "visitors = the thing I desire most in the world." This positive correlation will eventually overwrite his negative association.

Manipulate the situation if you can. If the dog gets so upset by witnessing someone walk through the door that he's ignoring the thing he wants, start with rewarding the dog in a different room, as well as attempting to find a more desirable object. You may need to shop around for a treat or game that he really, really, wants. Slowly move the dog to where the visitors are actually entering the house.

If you can, start slow. With repeated visits from the same person. Then a new person. Eventually, when he seems alright with one person entering the house, try two people (preferably ones he's alright met before).

Eventually, when it's safe, you can have the visitors be the one's producing the desirable game or treat. This will create an even more positive association with the visitor.

If you want to, you can also try and REALLY reinforce non-behavior. Whenever he reacts calmly to a situation that would normally produce a reaction, praise him! It's sometimes hard for us to notice and praise a non-behavior, but once you get in the groove of doing so, you can really help shape the dog to behave the way you desire. (This works for any behavior problem, really).

On top of all of this, remember Border Collies are extremely intelligent and energetic dogs, as well as very sensitive. They pick up things very quickly. They also need some fairly intense physical exercise. Misbehavior is often exacerbated by lack of physical and mental stimulation. Make sure he is getting very intense, hard, physical exercise every day, and is getting routine training sessions. You could even create a job for him to do. A dog that is mentally and physically understimulated is much more likely to act out and behave inappropriately.

Good luck!
 
Joined
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Messages
1,790
Re: Training Aggressive Dog

I show my cats that Im the pack leader with a can of air used for blowing off the keypad. One little squirt on the rear end has the cats knowing when they see me get the can to haul arse.. I bet it would work on a dog too. After a couple of shots he will know who the boss is and then be submissive whch is the goal anyway.
 

JCF350

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Oct 21, 2007
Messages
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Re: Training Aggressive Dog

aggressive behavior is aggressive behavior. Punishable by law any where.

The term "nipping" candy coats the word Bite.

The dog should behave on command (we ain't talking about a person here after all).
If the dog can't learn what "no" means it is time for different one.
 

JB

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45,907
Re: Training Aggressive Dog

After watching "The Dog Whisperer" for a few months I am convinced that any undesirable behavior can be corrected.

Cezar can turn slathering beasts into well behaved dogs. I have seen it done.

Consult a pro, you will be amazed.
 

Limited-Time

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Re: Training Aggressive Dog

Those that would "correct" a dogs behavior with a fire arm should not be dog owners. If you cant handle or train an animal don't get one.

JB's reference to The Dog Whisper is spot on.
 

new_boater

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Jun 1, 2007
Messages
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Re: Training Aggressive Dog

ok after watching this thread and seing the responses i need to say my 2 cents.

1st have you given yourself and the dog any formal training classes???????
if not i would do so.

i have had boxers and have always trained them for at "least" simple obedience. having used old school methods of punishment training and just having trained the most recent dog using positive training methods for the first time i firmly believe that positive training is the better way.
anyone who would throw their dog onto its back is asking to be bitten if you watch true submissive dogs they will always roll into their back as a sign of submissiveness but any dog that is forced into this position will eventually fight back.
as far as ingrained behavior i firmly believe that any bad habit can be untrained.


JB is correct in that it is unbelievable what can be done with time and patience with even the worst behavior can be corrected

just my thought after having dogs my entire life and having raised show quality dogs for the last 10 yrs.
 

Manipulator

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Apr 11, 2005
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Re: Training Aggressive Dog

Get a shock collar. I trained my English Springer with one. He is a baby, not aggressive at all and that wasn't what I bought it for. It was more to learn commands and stay in the yard. Believe me, your collie will knock that behavior off once he rides the lightning a few times. Now I do not even have to zap him, I just hit the tone button on it and he does what is asked.
 

mscher

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Apr 21, 2004
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Re: Training Aggressive Dog

Thanks for all of the responses.

Sammy has not had any formal training, so it's definitely time.

He is a big baby, except for the times he thinks he need to be protective, then he is totally on. If family members are play fighting (or sometimes real fighting), he is there to protect somebody, even if he not sure who.

Even though we got him as a pet/protector, since we now raise sheep, maybe it's time to see just how much Border Collie, he has in him.

It appears that structure, discipline and a job, are things this breed needs.

I'll post an update later.
 

Bob_VT

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Re: Training Aggressive Dog

A 2 year old Boarder Collie is now an adult. That is a working dog that needs a job.... umemployed working dogs can have issues. They are a herd dog and herd (or flock) corrections are done by nipping, biting and being aggressive. [Side note if you ever get a chance to see them being worked it is very interesting]

My friend had a full sheepdog that would run around and actually herd the children in the yard which was fun to watch.

My wife is very into the fiber arts and dogs. We attend many of the sheep and wool festivals and wath the herding dogs work. If you are going to have sheep and train the dog .... get with people who have done it. It is alot of work but wow are those dogs good. They do bite if they feel the need to take charge.

My opinion is a shock collar used for corrections.... just enough to correct the behavior (retrain the dog away from it's natural breeding).... keep it turned down so the dog is corrected not fried!

Do you raise sheep for wool, food or fun?
 

rolmops

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5,554
Re: Training Aggressive Dog

What you are describing is a dog who is way too smart for just being sweet and looking pretty.The poor guy is bored!
Unless you can get him to work,he will continue this behavior.
He probably loves to attack any wheels,be they on cars,bicycles or baby buggies.He may lay in ambush to let the wheels get close and then will tear into them.
Unless you have work for him,both you and the dog might be better of by sending him to a farm where he can use his great skills.
 

JB

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Re: Training Aggressive Dog

I agree that Border Collies must have a job and get plenty of exercise.

My #3 daughter has a Border Collie (Pinky. Who would call a working dog "Pinky"?) who herds her goats, horses, cats, chickens and any wild birds who try to forage on her lawns and pastures.

Pinky no longer tries to herd the llamas. They really object to being herded. :)
 

muskie hunter

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 29, 2007
Messages
158
Re: Training Aggressive Dog

We have a 2 year old male Border Collie mix, that has become VERY aggressive towards visitors, even children. This aggressive behaviour, frightens visitors and worries us, as he growls and nips, but fortunately has not bitten anyone, accept me.

After a few minutes, he is fine and completely calm with the visitors, for the rest of the time they are here.

Sammy is an indoor/outdoor dog, treated well. He is leashed trained, but will ignore commands to stop, if a car door opens, or kid walks up the driveway. He was neutered two months ago, since we thought, the nads may be contributing, but it has gott a little worse since.

Obviously, this behaviour cannot continue, but we are not sure where to begin. I'll hire a pro, if needed, but am looking for ideas and some steps, to get things under control.

Any input appreciated.

It sounds as though he might be out of balance. try putting a little lead in his ear!
 

salty87

Commander
Joined
Aug 12, 2003
Messages
2,327
Re: Training Aggressive Dog

some really good responses, 'cept for the blow your buddy's head off crowd....yeesh

i'll keep mine short although ondarvr did a great job at the long version. i'd get him on the leash and out of the house a whole bunch. i quick scanned everything and didn't see anyone mention that a dog can feel cornered with new people coming into the house if he isn't used to new people.

i'd also try getting him outside to greet new people before they come into the house...on the leash. the leash imparts control, ask any dominatrix.
 
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
1,790
Re: Training Aggressive Dog

I dont believe in being cruel even to a nasty dog but as a last resort you can control the dog with a hand held "bug zapper" HD has them for about 7 bucks. This thing will quickly have the dog wanting to hide when he sees it. Just take it out when people arrive and keep it near them. The poouch wont come near it or them.........one or two zapps on the nose wont hurt him but it will give him an alarming experience he will avoid.
 

newfy

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May 31, 2008
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Re: Training Aggressive Dog

a HAPPY Dog is a tired dog, work him, walk him, keep him busy, enroll in basic obidience classes in a group, the dog will be socialized at the same time, trainer can give pointers. Most dog breeders will require that you enroll in some sort of training classes. I have a border collie & a newfoundland, when I'm not home they keep each other busy, they get long walks every day, weather permitting.
 
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