Trim/tilt motor tear down???

[familyfun]

Okay, this is from a '88 force 125. When I go to run it up or down it will trip the circuit breaker. It's not hard to figure out why just from looking at it though. How do I seperate the motor from the pump? I was going to tear it apart and see how bad it is inside but can't figure out how to get the two units apart. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Trim/tilt motor tear down???

Just unscrew the top two bolts and pop the motor off. you will most likely need a new gasket and when you go to re-install the motor or a new one, twist it while seating so the drive tab on the shaft end enters slot in the the pump gear.

 

[RRitt]

Re: Trim/tilt motor tear down???

you're kind of on your own with this one. A 1988 engine should have a 2w motor. Your reservoir is 2w but your field frame is 3w. Additionally, the label on side of motor is an aftermarket brand. It's going to be like a box of chocolates. You won't know what to expect until after you take it apart.

but, generally speaking, take out the two through bolts on top and it should split apart. Use all new gaskets and sealing washers when putting back together. Make sure to use exact replacement gaskets since thickness of gasket will affect armature end play.

 

[NYBo]

Re: Trim/tilt motor tear down???

you're kind of on your own with this one. A 1988 engine should have a 2w motor. Your reservoir is 2w but your field frame is 3w.

It looks like that third wire is a ground attached to the mounting bolt, probably added by a previous owner, for some unknown reason.

 

[RRitt]

Re: Trim/tilt motor tear down???

i'm pretty sure it's a 3w motor. 2W motors use magnets and 3w motors use field windings. There is a phillips head bolt halfway down the motor collar. You don't need that bolt with magnets but do need it with field windings.

A while ago aftermarket 3w trim motors started shipping with "universal" reservoirs that the manufacturer could use on either 2w or 3w Prestolite. It is probably the leading cause of stripped hydraulic ports. When you try to put one of the "universal" reservoirs onto an older trim system the pump ends up almost 1" lower than before. The tubes have to be bent and shaped and forced into submission. A lot of times the threads on pump strip out before the stainless tubing flexes into alignment.

So you look at his picture and you do see the field winding bolt but you do not see bend and deformed oil tubes. If I had to place bets then I would bet he is trying to use a 3w motor on a 2w system. Maybe even trying to hook the motor up to relays. Quite possible that the motor is fine - it's just the wrong trim motor for his boat.

 

[familyfun]

Re: Trim/tilt motor tear down???

So, since this is a 3w system would I be better off bypassing the relays and running 10/3 SO cord from a DPDT switch? Just wondering.

 

[RRitt]

Re: Trim/tilt motor tear down???

I wouldn't go to too much trouble over it. I think fixing that particular motor to run on your particular boat is throwing good money after bad. If you look at pictures you can see obvious rust forming at the seams and joints. That motor probably will need big rebuild in near future. Save your money and buy a rebuildable 2w off ebay or craigslist.

I think that you should spend as little time and money as possible to make that thing work temporarily while the correct part is being rebuilt. Then put the correct part in and have another 10-15 years of trouble free trimming.

 

[NYBo]

Re: Trim/tilt motor tear down???

i'm pretty sure it's a 3w motor. 2W motors use magnets and 3w motors use field windings. There is a phillips head bolt halfway down the motor collar. You don't need that bolt with magnets but do need it with field windings.

Hmm. It looks like the third wire is attached to the motor's case by way of a crimp connector to me. But the photo is a bit fuzzy, so you may be right.

 

[familyfun]

Re: Trim/tilt motor tear down???

Alrighty, Well looks like it's off to ebay I go.

Thanks

 

[familyfun]

Re: Trim/tilt motor tear down???

The third wire is running to the negative of the battery. I'm going to try to tear it apart this weekend if I get time and the weather don't turn nasty. If it is beyond repair then I guess it will be time to look on ebay.

thanks

 

[NYBo]

Re: Trim/tilt motor tear down???

The third wire is running to the negative of the battery. I'm going to try to tear it apart this weekend if I get time and the weather don't turn nasty. If it is beyond repair then I guess it will be time to look on ebay.

thanks

Is the other end connected to the motor case? If so, just for ha-has, disconnect it. Then hook the blue and green wires to the battery, one to the positive, the other to the negative. Then try reversing the polarity. I think someone who didn't know how the circuits work for a 2-wire motor are supposed to work, and improvised a "solution" that created a dead short.

 

[RRitt]

Re: Trim/tilt motor tear down???

Is the other end connected to the motor case? If so, just for ha-has, disconnect it. Then hook the blue and green wires to the battery, one to the positive, the other to the negative. Then try reversing the polarity. I think someone who didn't know how the circuits work for a 2-wire motor are supposed to work, and improvised a "solution" that created a dead short.

Oh no! Don't do that! Green and Blue to battery is short and you're likely to burn something out. The black wire to trim motor case and connected to either engine block or directly to ground is very common. Look at the Volvo Penta AQ290 trim motor. Yours is either an AQ290 or modeled directly after it.

Black is a common ground. Blue activates the field windings that generate a forward magnetic field. Green activates the field windings that generate a reverse magnetic field. The far end of both field windings connect to a motor brush. The second motor brush connects either to motor frame or to the black wire. If brush connect to motor frame then gronud is provided or supplemented with a grounding wire to engine block/battery.

IF you connect green to one battery post and Blue to the other then you are shorting out the field windings with almost no resistance from either armature or magnetic fields. If you do decide to try this, then please stand back far enough to avoid the flames.

 

[RRitt]

Re: Trim/tilt motor tear down???

look, here is some simple advice.

Get a battery and some jumper cables. Don't take anything apart. Connect or clamp battery neagtive to black wire. Touch blue lead to battery positive. Does motor spin? If not then learn to live without trim until you can arrange a 2w motor/pump. Your pump is good for parts but not worth the effort to fix.

If it does spin then temporarily rewire the relays so that they do not provide any ground to trim motor. Wire up the relays so that they will simply provide +12v to one motor lead wire or the other. The unused wire should just be dead. Not connected to anything. Only make it temporary though. Your trim motor is still forming rust and the correct replacement is still 2w.

It should cost you under $200 to find an old pump off ebay or craigslist and have it rebuilt. Ebay is funny. A prettu trim pump isn't really worth more than an ugly one. Both of them will break soon. But people will pay big money for the pretty one and almost nothing for the ugly one. So buy an ugly one without corrosion and get it rebuilt. You'll get a good as new pump for cheap.

 

[NYBo]

Re: Trim/tilt motor tear down???

Oh no! Don't do that! Green and Blue to battery is short and you're likely to burn something out. The black wire to trim motor case and connected to either engine block or directly to ground is very common. Look at the Volvo Penta AQ290 trim motor. Yours is either an AQ290 or modeled directly after it.

Black is a common ground. Blue activates the field windings that generate a forward magnetic field. Green activates the field windings that generate a reverse magnetic field. The far end of both field windings connect to a motor brush. The second motor brush connects either to motor frame or to the black wire. If brush connect to motor frame then gronud is provided or supplemented with a grounding wire to engine block/battery.

IF you connect green to one battery post and Blue to the other then you are shorting out the field windings with almost no resistance from either armature or magnetic fields. If you do decide to try this, then please stand back far enough to avoid the flames.

He's already said he has a dead short (breaker tripping). But I retract my advice. I was unaware of how 3-wire systems are wired (I've only had 2-wire systems and thought that ground looked jury-rigged). Sounds like the motor is junk if it's wired properly and pops the breaker immediately. Probably rusted solid. Glad you were able to correct my erroneous advice.

 

[RRitt]

Re: Trim/tilt motor tear down???

He's already said he has a dead short (breaker tripping). But I retract my advice. I was unaware of how 3-wire systems are wired (I've only had 2-wire systems and thought that ground looked jury-rigged). Sounds like the motor is junk if it's wired properly and pops the breaker immediately. Probably rusted solid. Glad you were able to correct my erroneous advice.

actually, i think if this was an automotive forum it would be something like this ...

" I got an old alternator from the basement and stuck it in my car. With enough duct tape and epoxy glue I got it to stay in place. After randonmly connecting the wires it did not work. Can anybody tell me how to make this work?"

The only reason I recognized his pump as 3w is because I also rebuild other types including the evinrude and volvo variations on Prestolite. Whatever it is from, it was not originally intended for Force. Force trim motors do not tie ground to engine. Even the 3w versions normally have an isolated ground.