Trim/Tilt problem

Jerry Young

Cadet
Joined
May 12, 2009
Messages
10
Last Summer my remote trim/tilt started working intermitting when trying to raise the motor. This year both up and down operation from both the remote and the cowling trim/tilt switches are not working. I bypassed the solenoid and trim/tilt works fine. I bypassed the switch by applying power to the solenoid and I get the same results as if using the switch both from remote and cowling. When using the switch there is a solid sound of the solenoid throwing out the plunger, but the trim/tilt motor does not operate. The solenoid will sing/whine from what I believe to be the contacts arcing inside the solenoid. I bought new solenoids for both up and down operation and I have the same results as with the old solenoids. The battery checks fine and to be sure I used my truck battery and got the same results. I have cleaned with a wire brush all the bolt on connectors, The plug in connectors have been visually inspected, but not pulled apart. I have 12 volts on the hot side of the solenoid and when the solenoid is operated I have 10 volts on the solenoid side connected to the motor. When ohm-ing out the solenoid from hot side to motor side, I had 5 ohms. Do not know why the 2 volt drop on motor side of solenoid. What have I missed? Also, the trim/tilt motors is only two years old. Three wire (dedicated ground).
 

CharlieB

Vice Admiral
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
5,617
Re: Trim/Tilt problem

Will need to know what model and serial you have as there are a couple different trim motors and solenoid that can be used.

A two wire trim motor switches power on and grounds the motor thru the other relay.

A three wire motor has a dedicated ground.

Which system do you have?
 

RRitt

Captain
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
3,319
Re: Trim/Tilt problem

or pic of system. mercury really only made 2-3 systems.
 

Jerry Young

Cadet
Joined
May 12, 2009
Messages
10
Re: Trim/Tilt problem

Motor is two years old and is the three wire motor (dedicated ground). '95 Mercury 115 hp 4 cyl.
 

Win1660T

Cadet
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
6
Re: Trim/Tilt problem

I'm having the same sort of problem as many here are and have posted my issue with no responce, thanks guys. Anyways, I'm begining to think it may be the the brush's but have not popped the top to check brush condition and distance. What's different about mine is that the bow switch is dead, helm control switch only works trim up, and the stern switch (on boat) works trim up and trim down works but blows 25amp fuse.
FYI... There is a great manual for download in sticky notes.
Update... Have received a responce, Thanks RRitt
 

RRitt

Captain
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
3,319
Re: Trim/Tilt problem

It does more harm than good to pop the top on a trim motor. if its broke then the parts cost more than its worth to fix. If it ain't broke then it soon will be after you break the seal on those old gaskets.

brushes fail in both directions.
relays and solenoids fail in one direction.
pumps bleed down from tilt.
rams let water in. and water messes up trim.
switches fail and short intermittently at seemingly random times
bad connections cause voltage drop and system runs weak

3w motors can, in rare circumstance, have a breakdown of internal insulation and fail in only one direction. it almost never happens unless somebody takes motor apart..
 

monk-monk

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
642
Re: Trim/Tilt problem

I can, and would like to help, but nothing seems to make sense...what is this "dedicated ground" thing...the pump motor grounding is accomplished by a ground wire from the negative terminal of the battery that fastens to the pump motor field and frame and then jumps to the negative post on the solenoid(s) coil terminal...The only difference between a 2 wire pump harness and a 3 wire harness is that the 2 wire harness has the Positive battery wire connected at the helm control...with the 3 wire set-up, the Positive battery wire terminates at the solenoid coil(s) and BACKFEEDS up to the helm control...the 2 wire gets battery power at the helm control and the 3 wire gets powered at the solenoids and feeds back to the helm control...
 

CharlieB

Vice Admiral
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
5,617
Re: Trim/Tilt problem

3W motor
Black = constant ground
Blue = trim up
Green = trim down

All trim switches operate the same trim relay/solenoid

Period.
 

RRitt

Captain
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
3,319
Re: Trim/Tilt problem

there are two types of motors -
those with permanent magnets and those with electro-magnets.

if you reverse the wires on a magnet motor then it will spin the other way. that is why 2wire motors do not have a ground. you simply flip the wires to trim down.

if you reverse the wires on an electromagent motor then it spins in same direction. that's because you are reverseing both the armature magnet and the frame magnet. the two reversals cancel each other out. So the 3w motor actaully has two sets of electromagnets (called field coils). One is wound clockwise (blue) and the other is wound counter-clockwise (green). The black wire is a comon ground for both windings. If you put power on the blue wire then trim goes up. If you oput power on the green wire then trim goes down. If you put power on both wires then it gets hot and bursts into flames. If you ground blue or green then you partially energize both coils (like poking a second hole in a bucket full of electrons) and it gets hot & melts something.

the difference between 2w and 3w harness is whether or not there is a common ground. 2w motors do not have a ground. they just have polarity and flipped polarity. this is good for motor and electrical because it is easier to wire, and more tolerant of terminal corrosion. The wiring is cheaper because you do not have to use big heavy wires and terminals to avoid voltage loss and the relays can be $3 headlight thingys instead of $30 starter solenoids. However ... parker hannafin put out a champ of a 3w motor during the 90's. Built like a tank. last forever. stainless steel frame bolts on every corner with a double seals. heavy duty lower bearing and lip seal. quad brushes instead of two and 50% larger contact area per brush. It was built to the same type of standards used on industrial and military stuff. I think it's because it was one of their first recreational trim motors and they just went with their industrial roots. So maybe its worth the wiring hassle if you have an original parker hanafin (oildyne) 3w. However, the chinese stuff is cr*p and the aftermarket stuff is not built to same standards. Your motor that went bad after 2Y is prolly chinese? Wow, what a surprise. chinese stuff that broke.

back to 2w. 2w motors do not have a common ground. As it turns out, magnetic fields create electricity in nearby metal. So the trim motor magnet was causing any nearby iron to put out electricity. Which was causing the aluminum to pit and corrode very quickly. Nobody ever noticed this with 3w motors because the motor has common ground. Whenever you use a 2w motor you need to install a ground strap. Better yet - a ground strap made from SS that goes directly between an anode and the trim system. That is what the little silver wire is and does on mercury trim.

once working the motor spins a pump. the pump does great with fluid but doesn't work with air. if there is not enough oil then system raises to a level and stops. inside the pump are tiny little valves, gates, and controls that control the flow of fluid. As soon as the motor stopps spinning they sense it and lock the system. If you engine does not stay in position then it is almost always these little valves. Boy, they are hard to fix. very hard to fix.

the ram is just a ram. a hollow tube with a piuston. pump fluid in and piston goes up. pump fluid back into reservoir and poiston goes down. (its actually a tiny bit more complicated but that model works well enough). the piston rings are big fat pieces of rubber. they eventually go bad but the pump almost always goes first. what does happen is a design flaw in the mercury system exagerates a weakness inherent in all marine trim. Water gets back into the system by hitching a ride on piston shaft when you lower engine. The mercury single ram design (1987-2010) has a steel valve at the lowest point in system. During the off season water collects there and rusts up the valve. You need to keep that top center seal in tip-top shape. How long your system lasts is directly related to how much you use your engine because if you don't ever use your engine then you don't ever get water. For the average mercury 35-120HP boater it is 15years.

well, that's about all I know about mercury trim that fits on this page. I haven't dug into the 3 ram systems yet. they are sure to be an extension of the single ram though. same engineers for both. hope it helps.
 
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