Updated - Update (Remanned Engine Puked) attn: steve n carol

[KaGee]

Hey Steve.... per your request:<br /><br />Original post Remanned Engine Puked Last Night <br />The problem is not linked to the rebuilder, so far as I can tell.<br />Since I had to reinstall the intake manifold, I took the head off to make sure all was well. Other than water, the block looked real good. Cleaned out all the cylinders. Reinstalled everything. Pressure checked system to 15 lbs... lost 1/2 lb in 10 min which I attribute to tiny leak in petcock drain. OK. Pressure checked Exhaust manifold... added a pint of mineral spirits, held 25 lbs for over 2 hours sitting out in the afternoon sun, no visible leaks found. Replaced Riser Gasket. <br /><br />Still getting water in cyl 3. (Last one )Disconnected water supply to exhaust manifold, now cyl 3 is dry and engine runs good.<br /><br />The exhaust manifold pressure checks out ok. The riser looks good, no visible cracks. Yet water is getting in. I guess the only thing to do is replace the manifold and riser. <br />Any other suggestions??<br /><br />I would have to customize the replacement as the original manifold and riser is well over $400 a side. Replacement aftermarkets are around $200 plus additional hardware. (Replacements are center rise, OEM's are rear rise)<br /><br /><br />FYI it's an '82 OMC 3.8L W/Stringer 800 drive.

 

[yoced]

Re: Updated - Update (Remanned Engine Puked) attn: steve n carol

I would suspect the gasket seal between the riser and the manifold. <br /><br />I would check surfaces for flat, check gasket for correct application, and check how you are using the gasket.<br /><br />Before I would start it up I would want to run a flow test on the riser. If it is blocked up at all you could easily be forcing water through the gasket.<br /><br />And just for fun you could hold the riser upside down and fill the jacket with K-1 for a couple of hours to see if it leaks.<br /><br />Glad it was not the engine anyway. Good luck.

 

[steve n carol]

Re: Updated - Update (Remanned Engine Puked) attn: steve n carol

Kagee, I feel honered and special! thanks for the update.<br />regarding the gasket between the riser and exhaust manifold. Did you pressure test these bolted together? and, Did you pressure test the riser too? I don't know where cyl # 3 is located in relationship to the block, is it the rear? the one closest to the riser? If not, It sure points to the manifold doesent it. let us know what you come up with.<br />and glad to hear that the probabal, (is that a word?), cause is not the manufacturer.<br />You're probably getting this thing ready for winter as well...sl

 

[KaGee]

Re: Updated - Update (Remanned Engine Puked) attn: steve n carol

No problem... last we spoke, we were both headed out of town. You had asked about my "hole in the water" in another post, I just got around to answering.<br /><br />I mis-spoke... 3rd cylinder... actually/technically it's #5. (1,3,5). I could not pressure test the riser... Can't figure out how to. I pressure tested the manifold using a piece of oak and gasket material in between the riser/manifold, and bolting the two together. (Thanks Tommays for the idea) But I see no cracks in the riser.

 

[yoced]

Re: Updated - Update (Remanned Engine Puked) attn: steve n carol

You can't really test those risers very well with pressure. <br /><br />Turn the riser upside down and fill jackets with Kerosene. K-1 wicks very well and will come out of any hole you may have. For clarity you can coat inner walls with white powder (spray-on foot powder or flour both work nicely) just so you can see immediately when the K-1 shows.<br /><br />If you really want to pressure check, plug exhaust up, and pressurize it, then look for for air leaking INTO the water jacket.

 

[steve n carol]

Re: Updated - Update (Remanned Engine Puked) attn: steve n carol

Kagee, <br /> I was able to pressurize my risers, the method yoced described is interisting too. <br /> If you used olive oil and flour, you could put it all in the oven bake at 350 for 18 minutes!<br />Providing that it was cracked and the ingredients could mix...sl<br /><br />I dont think I'd bake K-1.<br /><br /> Do tell what becomes of this because some of us have $$ riding on this. Some are even betting that you put this away for the winter w/o correcting the problem, only to find that the piston rings will be rusted to the cyl walls...JK

 

[KaGee]

Re: Updated - Update (Remanned Engine Puked) attn: steve n carol

I'm no good in the kitchen Steve.<br />Weather was crappy this weekend. It was my inlaws 50th anniversary. So needless to say... another weekend goes by, and nothing else gets done. <br /><br />AHHHHHH! You said the "R" word! Wash your mouth!<br />And never use the "R" word in the same sentance as "cylinders".

 

[KaGee]

Re: Updated - Update (Remanned Engine Puked) attn: steve n carol

OK guys... Filled the riser with mineral spirits and let stand for 24 hours, no sign at all of leakage.<br /><br />The manifold held pressure with a pint of mineral spirits ...no leakage.<br /><br />Put the two back together with a new gasket and light coat of Super Black for good measure, still getting water intrusion.<br /><br />Disconnect water supply from the manifold and spark plugs come back dry. Reconnect the water and BAM! water intrusion again.<br /><br />So unless there is something I have over looked I guess I bite the bullet for new manifolds??? <br /><br />And you wonder why I've lost my marbles!!!!!

 

[Lou C]

Re: Updated - Update (Remanned Engine Puked) attn: steve n carol

I don't think that filling it up with mineral spirits puts the manifold under enough pressure to test it properly. I have heard of people fabbing a block off plate were the riser goes and pressurizing the manifold with air and putting it in a tank to see if it leaks. Here in the land of salt water, manifolds are a maintenance item. As in you replace them every 4-5 years or so, so as to not risk trashing a perfectly good engine. Manifolds are pricey, true, but if you are in freshwater, if you change em now you probably won't have to do it again for a long time.

 

[steve n carol]

Re: Updated - Update (Remanned Engine Puked) attn: steve n carol

I feel for you kagee.<br />Tommays poated a link a few months ago in THIS forum. It was from mercusier and stated various ways water may intrude into your engine. I learned alot from this article, well 2 things! ha ha not true. <br />I have only 'pressure' tested manifolds/risers. I know that method workes.<br />wish you the best. BTW, it was 72 degrees and clear here today, I think I even got a little sunburn!...sl

 

[KaGee]

Re: Updated - Update (Remanned Engine Puked) attn: steve n carol

I did pressure test the manifold @ 20lbs for almost 3 hours out in the hot sun. The design of the riser made it impossible to pressure test.<br /><br />I've read the Merc bulletin.<br /><br />If I have to change the manifolds... so be it. I just wanted to be sure I am not over looking something.<br /><br />Hey Steve.... @ your 72.... Just for that... I hope you got A LOT of sunburn!!!! (JK)

 

[Trent]

Re: Updated - Update (Remanned Engine Puked) attn: steve n carol

Make shure you replace the risers also. Most times its the risers that give the trouble. Actually gasoline works better than K1 when checking for leaks. Course it more dangerous.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Updated - Update (Remanned Engine Puked) attn: steve n carol

BTW, it was 72 degrees and clear here today, I think I even got a little sunburn!...sl

All of 30* here this morning..........<br />I'm going out+ see if I can Bag 1 of God's Creatures to park beside my mashed potatos.... <br />BTW, got your letter yesterday... Thanks..<br />Hope it works for you......

 

[achris]

Re: Updated - Update (Remanned Engine Puked) attn: steve n carol

Hey KaGee,<br /><br />I'm not completely familiar with that engine, but are the port and starboard manifold and exhaust elbow (also known as a 'riser') interchangeable with each other?<br /><br />Just a possible way of proving conclusively.<br /><br />Chris............

 

[steve n carol]

Re: Updated - Update (Remanned Engine Puked) attn: steve n carol

If I have to change the manifolds... so be it.

KaGee, Sorry, i thought you only 'pressure tested' the manifolds. In any case, unless you have the $$, I thought you might search and find the intrusion elsewhere, instead of spending $$ on replacement parts that you don't need.<br />Achris is good help isn't he?<br /><br />BONDO wrote;<br />

I'm going out+ see if I can Bag 1 of God's Creatures to park beside my mashed potatos....

I think that's great! would this be the furred or feathered variaty? yum!<br />I ate the last of the elk 3 days ago...sl

 

[KaGee]

Re: Updated - Update (Remanned Engine Puked) attn: steve n carol

I believe the risers are identical, but I put the enginge to bed for the winter today... it was such a pretty weekend... high 50's. I doubt we see this again.<br /><br />I am going to switch out to new. I don't know what else it could be.<br /><br />AChris... a 3.8L is a sawed off 305 Chevy block. Most of the parts are similar to the 305. It had a short life in the early 80s. GM developed the 4.3 in 85 or 86 that replaced it. The manifolds are rear riser. I will have to modify to the center rise style like Merc uses on the 4.3. Gonna take some "back yard hack engineering" to get 'er done!<br /><br />EDIT: here is a pic<br />

 

[Don S]

Re: Updated - Update (Remanned Engine Puked) attn: steve n carol

Wasn't the 3.8 actually a Buick V6 and not the Chevy 4.3 V6?<br />I know that OMC used the Buick V6 for a few years in the early 80's.<br />While the risers may not leak, I really wonder about the riser/manifold gasket surface. My guess is that you have a black carbon substance for the gasket surface and not shiny metal. Or the web between them is so thin that there is nothing for the gasket to seal against. <br />If so, there is your water intrusion.<br />Would be nice to see some pictures.

 

[KaGee]

Re: Updated - Update (Remanned Engine Puked) attn: steve n carol

Don... I have the Chevy 229CID. The Buick was a 225 and used late 70's through 80 or 81.<br />Here is a couple more pics.<br /> <br />

<br />and...<br />

 

[Don S]

Re: Updated - Update (Remanned Engine Puked) attn: steve n carol

Since the water is getting to all the cylinders of that bank, it's either a riser, a manifold, or gasket surface/gasket between the two.<br />How high is the top of the risers above the water line. Not sure what OMC recommendes, but Merc is around 13". The diagram below is an example of what I mean.<br /><br />