Used Mercury 200?

[reelfishin]

I'm looking at a used Mercury 200, a 1970 model with Thunderbolt ignition.
It was supposedly rebuilt two years ago, and the gaskets and appearance sort of support that. It was at least dissassembled since all the gaskets look new, and most all of the bolts are brand new shiny stainless steel. The motor is on a flat bottom boat up in the mountains, so I doubt if its ever seen saltwater too.
I did a compression test, both cylinders show 121 psi, the lower unit looks new, and the fluid is clean, not milky, but not new, the prop is fairly new but has seen some use. I test ran it, it was hard to start but once it was running it ran strong. It did smoke a lot, but the fuel in the guy's tank looked dark, like it was way over mixed with oil.

The motor really took a while to start, it acted as if it needed more choke, or like it wasn't gettin fuel yet the primer bulb was rock hard. I ran the motor on the lake there for about 1/2 hour with no problems and subsequent restarts were no problem. It may well have been the first time it ran this season too. The plugs are new, the wiring harness also looks new. The carbs both look like they've been just done, everything is super clean.

I've been warned about the Thunderbolt Ignition and 'switch box' and stator by a local dealer. I currently have a Merc 400 which I use on another boat that's been great.
If an expensive part of the ignition was to fail, can these be retro converter to points? I've been told that they made both versions in these years?
The motor number is 2892688, it's a short shaft with remote control and it also has a tiller on it. I'd like to run it as a plain tiller motor, no controls, but still make use of the electric start. Can I move the start and stop controls to the motor? There's a plastic plug where the shut down button would be on a plain tiller motor. This function is done with the ignition switch . I don't care about an ignition switch, a push button is fine.

The seller wants $300, firm, He's got $2344 in receipts for the overhaul from 2007.

Does 121 PSI on both cylinders sound right? (My Merc 400 (40HP) has 145 on both cylinders and is all original). (Both motors were checked using the same gauge)

 

[Laddies]

Re: Used Mercury 200?

The compression seems OK, you dealer don't know much about R/bolt ign. that model has no switch box, just a stator with the capacitor built in, 2 set of points and 2 coils. the starting problem could be a lean idle condition, the choke not working properly or when the overhaul was done the insulator blocks on the point screws were not replace. Never buy a engine thats not running the way you expect it to run, let the owner put it right and then buy it.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Used Mercury 200?

I bought the motor, got it for $150. It runs fine once it starts, its just real hard to get started cold. Once it starts, it runs and restarts fine. It just don't like to sit. A fresh tank of properly mixed gas helped a lot.
You still have to crank it for a good 30 seconds with the choke on for it to fire up, then it'll stall a few times then finally run normal.
Once running, it runs great, idles fine, and runs fine on the water.

After I got it home, I rechecked it with a new Snap On compression gauge, I got 134/133 on both cylinders, either the gauges read different or it gained some compression after running it that day.

I didn't think Thunderbolt ignition had points? The dealer told me it was either/or, as if they made both versions in that year?

 

[Laddies]

Re: Used Mercury 200?

The first few years the 1 and 2 cyl T/bolt engine used points instead of a triigger. The earliest had the capacitor in the stator and the 2nd generation had a seperate capacitor, diode cluster and stator coils. I think you just have a lean condition that is a little dirt in the carb or a low float level, but some of those engines required a primer be added to get them started there is a service bulleton on it.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Used Mercury 200?

Do you know where I can find a copy of that bulletin?

The carbs were done by a Merc shop last fall according to the receipts, it looks like they were done several times with no change, including being replaced completely once in 2006. I got the impression that he just got tired of trying to start it. He had a squirt can with premix in the boat and a piece of vacuum hose hanging out of the shroud, so I guess he sort of made his own primer.
I can get it started without priming it but it cranks longer than I'd like. My Johnson 6hp fires on the second pull cold, this would take 10 pulls if starting manually, and hard pulls at that.

Once its running, it's perfect, I really don't want to chance ruining the way it runs. It's a strong motor for a 20 hp. It runs faster than my buddies 25 hp Johnson did on this boat, by about 5 mph or so.

I wouldn't have bought the motor if I wasn't impressed at how well it ran and how well it pulled weight. Both the seller and me combined had to be over 640 lbs, plus 5 gallons of gas, two batteries, and a boat that weighed at least 400lbs, and it still got right up on plane and ran a at a really good speed. I didn't have a speedometer or GPS, but I'd have guessed we were going at least 25, probably over 30 mph.

It idles great, restarts fine, and maxes out at about 5700 rpm using a clip on tach. It might turn faster but I didn't push it since I haven't messed with the prop yet, but I like how it pulls now, and I don't need to run any faster. I do want to get a good speed check on it, but I've not had my GPS with me yet to check. I'd guess about 27-28 mph with just me in the boat, which sets the boat a bit stern heavy with the fuel, batteries, motor weight, and me all at the stern. Simply leaning forward a bit increases speed quite noticeably.
Maybe a stick steer or just a tiller extension is in order as well, but only if I find a deal on one or the other. I'm not up for the $400+ they want for a Stik Steer kit.

 

[Scoots]

Re: Used Mercury 200?

Greetings!! I am working on a 1970 20hp Merc as well, however I did not see anything about thunderbolt ignition anywhere on the motor. You mentioned that it had remote steering as well as tiller. Was that available from the factory like that or is there an adaptor that has been added. I saw two of these motors sell on Ebay last month for more than $850 plus shipping , so it sounds like you got a pretty good deal!!

 

[Laddies]

Re: Used Mercury 200?

Just went to the shop to get the bulleton and the bulb in my micro-fiche took a dump in the cold and naturally I can't find the spare so it will be monday till I can get a bulb.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Used Mercury 200?

Greetings!! I am working on a 1970 20hp Merc as well, however I did not see anything about thunderbolt ignition anywhere on the motor. You mentioned that it had remote steering as well as tiller. Was that available from the factory like that or is there an adaptor that has been added. I saw two of these motors sell on Ebay last month for more than $850 plus shipping , so it sounds like you got a pretty good deal!!

Mine apparently came factory with a tiller handle, and remote controls.
The tiller just folds up out of the way when not used. I'll be using the tiller for now, but will eventually add Ezy Glide steering to my boat so I'll be keeping the remote option as well. Those without a tiller may not be so easy to convert, my 1971 Merc 400 does not have a tiller and there's no provisions for it.
(Most tiller motors however often don't have battery charging capability or electric start back then, it's one of the reasons I grabbed this one.

 

[Laddies]

Re: Used Mercury 200?

reelfishin, got the bulb for my fiche machine and find that the bulletin was before 73 so I am still digging for the original and think that I may have found a kit at a local marina the service manager is checking for me. I did have anouther thought along the way, have you tried to decarb it with Powertune as sticking rings can cause a vacuum problem also.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Used Mercury 200?

I wasn't thinking much about a decarb since its a recent rebuild?
I doubt this thing has more than a few hours on it since it was overhauled.
It also runs great once it starts.
If I give it a quick shot of premix, it fires right up and takes right off.
If I crank it to it starts, it has to warm up a bit. I was actually thinking fuel pump but the fact that it runs fine once it starts pretty much says the pump is fine, plus, it looks fresh too.

Does the kit include an electric primer? I take it that it works in place of a choke or with the choke? It has no electric choke now, only the manual choke on the motor front plate.

I checked with one local dealer, they all but refused to look up any parts saying it was too old. The guy looked in the computer for a few seconds, then looked over to me and said he had no info on it. I'm sure that was just to humor me and get me to leave.
A salesman stopped me on the way out and tried to sell me a new motor. When I asked him why would I buy a new motor when they can't even sell me parts for my old one? His reply was, "An outboard motor is only good for a set amount of time, you need to buy a new one every 4 or 5 years".
Not much of a sale pitch in my eyes. I guess I should just spend $3200 every 4 or 5 years, even if I only use it a few times? It's gotten to the point where I hate to even go in that place. We have three dealers within driving distance, one won't order or look up any older parts, the other never gets them in when you do order them, and everything has to be ordered. The last one only sells motors, says he can't get parts.
(I've been trying to get a cowl gasket for my 1995 115 Merc for 3 years now).

Let me know if you find the bulletin, or a part number for the kit.
I'll order it from whoever has it, there's not much sense in trying to buy it locally.

 

[Laddies]

Re: Used Mercury 200?

The kit is a small primer button that installs into the bottom cowl and a new intake port cover that has 2 nipples installed in it that a hose from the primer connect to so injects fuel directly in the intake ports of the engine. I can not find the bulletin which was from the early 70s but I know that a local marina has 1 of the kits which have been NLA for many years. I contacted them yesterday and the manager said he would dig it out so we can get the part number. If you want their name I can PM that info to you and if they can take care of you I think I could explain the kit to you, I thought we had a intake cover as I adapted a kit over for a 9.8 by drilling the carb flange and using just the small primer in the cowl.

 

[Starppy]

Re: Used Mercury 200?

Here are a few thoughts. Take them for what they are worth.

1. You said it was "up in the mountains". That may explain the difference in compression readings you mentioned. Thinner air means less compression.

2. here's an old trick for "priming" certain old Mercs. Pump up the ball like normal then open the throttle all the way (not at the warm up lever, but the actual throttle). Give the ball one more hard squeeze ( should feel it give a little), set the throttle back down then start as normal.

Maybe someone else can comment if this is healthy because what you are doing is pushing fuel through the carbs. I've done it once in a great while with no ill affects but doing it on a regular basis may cause issues. I can't even say for sure it will work on every old Merc, but you might want to give it a try.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Used Mercury 200?

Here are a few thoughts. Take them for what they are worth.

1. You said it was "up in the mountains". That may explain the difference in compression readings you mentioned. Thinner air means less compression.

2. here's an old trick for "priming" certain old Mercs. Pump up the ball like normal then open the throttle all the way (not at the warm up lever, but the actual throttle). Give the ball one more hard squeeze ( should feel it give a little), set the throttle back down then start as normal.

Maybe someone else can comment if this is healthy because what you are doing is pushing fuel through the carbs. I've done it once in a great while with no ill affects but doing it on a regular basis may cause issues. I can't even say for sure it will work on every old Merc, but you might want to give it a try.

Over pumping the bulb just dumps fuel out the front of the carb.

The motor came from the Pocono are in PA, he was running it on a river there and at a local lake. Not real high up, but higher then here by at least a 1,500'. I'm pretty close to sea level here, maybe about 100' or so.
I rechecked the compression after some more run time, this time I got 134/135psi. with the same gauge. I tried a few other gauges, and got varied readings as well by a few pounds either way. One Sears gauge read only 90/91 lbs, a Mac tools gauge read 140/142. I trust the newest gauge I have since it matches my older one of the same model in readings. The first compression reading was done up there, with a cheap gauge from Pep Boys, I retested it here with the same gauge with the starter hooked up, and got a few psi higher, then again with the new gauge. When I first checked it on the seller's boat, it was only done by pulling the starter rope, he didn't have a battery in the boat at the time. It just took more pulls to get the max reading. I counted the pulls and it took the same amount of pulls to get to the max reading with the choke and throttle open.

What should I be seeing in compression? I know their both equal, but all of my other motors show much higher compression. Only a few small Johnson motors I have show less.

This is the gauge I just bought:
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...&group_ID=1424&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

I figured it was a pretty decent quality gauge and the kit came with all of the various adapters and is made to get into tight spaces. The hose is also pretty long so it reaches inside the boat when working on the water.