Using Amsoil Saber in my V4 115hp Evinrude (1978) - my experiences

jaykibo

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I know there are more Amsoil Saber threads all over the internet than you can poke a stick at, but ill add my own to the mix too :)

Firstly, id like to let you all know of my experiences with Amsoil Saber (full synthetic, pre-mix, 100:1).

[For those of you that dont want to read the whole story, just skip to the bottom where I have my recommendation]

I bought my 1978 'rude 115hp V4 almost a year ago. I was told by the previous owner that it had a rebuilt only a couple of years back (the engine had seen minimal use since then) and sure enough each cylinder was giving me ~125psi compression.
I used normal TCW-3 semi-synth oil for the first few months then switched to Amsoil at 100:1. Yes, it was a bold move but not one made without reading many articles about it first.

For over 6 months the engine ran without a problem and it was cleaner, more responsive, faster, less smelly and less smokey. GREAT! Loved it!! But... then I began to wakeboard behind the boat on almost every outing and one day when I had my wife being towed on the wakeboard (she is only ~50kgs, so not heavy and she was already planing) one of the cylinders blew a head gasket (I doubt this had anything to do with the oil) and unfortunately I was in a position where I had to keep driving the engine with a blown gasket. After I replaced the gasket I went out for another day of boarding and this time with myself and few other (big) boys. When towing quite a considerable weight we stopped for a break and while the engine was in idle the *same* cylinder spat a ring!! I was devastated!

Upon inspection I found the cylinder had a deep scratch down the side and the top piston rings had broken. The damage looked to be due to lack of lubrication. The machinist I took the engine to agreed.

Now, I am not saying running Amsoil Saber at 100:1 shouldnt be done. What I am saying is that I was running it at 100:1 while putting the engine under *considerable* load (we had a full boat AND towing). Also, he same piston that had a blown head gasket was the one that spat the piston ring. I dont believe that was a coincidence. I am pretty sure that while running the engine with the blown gasket the lubrication to that gasket was compromised (even though the cylinder wasnt firing). Once the cylinder began firing again (after replacing the gasket) the cylinder decided to call it quits.

So, moral of the story. [My recommendation]
You are walking a thin line when running 100:1 Amsoil while punishing the engine. If you want to use Amsoil on your engine that you use for fishing and nothing too strenuous, then I highly recommend it. Otherwise, if you plan on punishing your poor old engine, then I suggest you richen up your mixture.

I did a top end rebuild on the engine. Bore out the 4 cylinders and using 0.03 oversize piston/rings. In the process I found that the previous owner had oversized 1 of the cylinders and left the other 3 standard (wobbly crankshaft!!??). I have been running 75:1 for a couple of months now. Still punishing the engine and its holding up well. Its a little smokier and smellier now, but its running much better and more responsive than before. But that is due to the rebuild. :)

===========

Bonus question:

Anyone use Amsoil Saber? if so, do you have any recommendations? I would like to know if 75:1 is good for my engine. or should I yield and drop back to 50:1 with Amsoil Saber? In any case, I am sticking to the oil and its bloody great stuff!
 

F_R

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Re: Using Amsoil Saber in my V4 115hp Evinrude (1978) - my experiences

And there, folks, is why I don't make oil recommendations. If the engine blows, it will always get blamed on the oil--whether that was the real cause or not. And I don't want to take the blame for saying to do it. Have you ruled out running lean on that cylinder? And why did the gasket blow? Why did only one cylinder suffer from the oil mix? There is more to this story than meets the eye.

BTW, boring one, two, or more cylinders is perfectly acceptable. I did it all the time when I was doing this stuff for a living. As for Amsoil, I have no opinion.
 

BillP

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Re: Using Amsoil Saber in my V4 115hp Evinrude (1978) - my experiences

I have an opinion...if it isn't officially TCW III certified, don't use it. Look for the seal on the container...no seal means not certified and doesn't meet OMCs spec. Was that a 100:1 ratio year motor?

bp
 

nwcove

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Re: Using Amsoil Saber in my V4 115hp Evinrude (1978) - my experiences

i also have an opinion......plugs are cheaper than pistons. running your 50:1 motor at 100:1 is a recipe for costing you $$$$$$, jmo, but if its spec'd at 50:1, run it at 50:1 ( or 40:1 to allow for a margin of error).
 

pecheux

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Re: Using Amsoil Saber in my V4 115hp Evinrude (1978) - my experiences

I know there are more Amsoil Saber threads all over the internet than you can poke a stick at, but ill add my own to the mix too :)



Bonus question:

Anyone use Amsoil Saber? if so, do you have any recommendations? I would like to know if 75:1 is good for my engine. or should I yield and drop back to 50:1 with Amsoil Saber? In any case, I am sticking to the oil and its bloody great stuff!

I have been experienting with both AMSOIL Injector rated for 50:1 ratio and AMSOIL Saber rated for 100:1 mix ratio for over 6 years with smaller OB's. I beleve the Injector is a good synthetic oil and is flawless mixed at 50:1 as per Amsoil recommendation. The Saber is another beast and I have found that running at 100:1 is borderline as far as normal operation is concerned and I have quickly lowerd my mix to 80:1. Also I have found that the Injector has a sweet odor in oposition to the Saber having an odd stinking odor. I have tried the Saber at 50:1 just for the fun of it ...and it was no fun ... LOL I cannot figure out why you would use the Saber at 50:1 when the INJECTOR oil is available ?????? Anyway both my OB's are back to 50:1 synthetic and the only reason I use Amsoil is that it was the only synthetic available in my region. Hope this helps
Cheers.
 

JB

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Re: Using Amsoil Saber in my V4 115hp Evinrude (1978) - my experiences

IMO, using oil not certified TC-W3 and not in the recommended ratio in an outboard is a stunt of the "Hey Bubba, hold my beer and watch this" variety.
 

pecheux

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Re: Using Amsoil Saber in my V4 115hp Evinrude (1978) - my experiences

IMO, using oil not certified TC-W3 and not in the recommended ratio in an outboard is a stunt of the "Hey Bubba, hold my beer and watch this" variety.
Probaly very close to reality ... I would rather switch than argue ... LOL
 

jaykibo

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Re: Using Amsoil Saber in my V4 115hp Evinrude (1978) - my experiences

IMO, using oil not certified TC-W3 and not in the recommended ratio in an outboard is a stunt of the "Hey Bubba, hold my beer and watch this" variety.

As I understand it there are a number of oils out there that aren't TC-W3 but are known to be good oils. Prior to going to Amsoil Saber I was using Caltex semi-synth which had TC-W3 written on it and for a long time I thought it was TC-W3. Turns out just because its written doesnt make it certified. But it was a good oil. I had used it in my previous OB's and also in 2 stroke motorbikes.

Anyway, im sure there are a large number of oils out there that exceed the specification. Most of them would be synthetic oils considering that synthetic is largely known as being better than petroleum-based oils, and the latter are still approved TC-W3.

In hindsight I shouldve run the mix richer than 100:1. But having run the 'rude on 100:1 for over 6 months prior the incident I have no hesitation in using it at a leaner mix in an OB used for general use/fishing/etc.. I would probably use around 80:1 to be on the safe side.

By the way, I found this an interesting read: http://www.performanceoilnews.com/oils_against_oils.shtml
 

aerobat

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Re: Using Amsoil Saber in my V4 115hp Evinrude (1978) - my experiences

LOL I cannot figure out why you would use the Saber at 50:1 when the INJECTOR oil is available ??????

cerafully carefully ! since injector oil is neither designed nor optimized to be ever mixed with fuel it may be poor in mixing for a carburated 2 stroke.

don,t forget that a direct injected 2stroke sucks pure air through the crankase and pure fuel is injected. the oil is distributed via the oil pump and distributor directly to the regions that need lubrication but it is never mixed with gas.

thats the main difference to a carburated two stroke that sucks fuel/oil mix with air through the crankcase and hereby lubricates the bearings etc.

using oil especially designed for direct injected engines in carburator engines is outside its envelope.

e.g evinrudes XD-50 or XD-100 oil is NOT recommended for any use beyond direct injected two strokes.
 

pecheux

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Re: Using Amsoil Saber in my V4 115hp Evinrude (1978) - my experiences

cerafully carefully ! since injector oil is neither designed nor optimized to be ever mixed with fuel it may be poor in mixing for a carburated 2 stroke.

don,t forget that a direct injected 2stroke sucks pure air through the crankase and pure fuel is injected. the oil is distributed via the oil pump and distributor directly to the regions that need lubrication but it is never mixed with gas.

thats the main difference to a carburated two stroke that sucks fuel/oil mix with air through the crankcase and hereby lubricates the bearings etc.

using oil especially designed for direct injected engines in carburator engines is outside its envelope.

e.g evinrudes XD-50 or XD-100 oil is NOT recommended for any use beyond direct injected two strokes.
But Amsoil Injector is recommended to mix at 50:1 ratio in premix as per Amsoil on their web site ... and I have been using it as such for the past 6 years ... cheers
 

strokersquid

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Re: Using Amsoil Saber in my V4 115hp Evinrude (1978) - my experiences

you are confuising "plain" oil injection, where oil is injected into the fuel stream and direct fuel injection, where oil is put directly into bearings and cylinder walls but fuel is directly injected into the cylinder. For plain oil injection the oil must first mix with the fuel, then lubricate. For DI it has to lubricate first and then mix to be burned off. Both oils have to mix with fuel. There is some difference between DI and standard oils, and manufacturers want you to use DI oils in DI engines, though the engines can be run on any tcw-3 rated oil. DI oil will also work in plain engines, though it would be expensive for no advantage. 'rude xd 100 is for use in Etec engines set for much less oil consumption ( a special setting done by a technician). Xd 50 is for use in etec or ficht engines at a higher consumption rate. I am not aware Amsoil is indicated in DI engines any more than any synthetic tcw-3 oil. Of course I have yet to see how DI oils differ from good synthetics, perhaps they dissolve into smaller droplets since they do not have fuel to help them get where they need to go ?
 

aerobat

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Re: Using Amsoil Saber in my V4 115hp Evinrude (1978) - my experiences

For DI it has to lubricate first and then mix to be burned off. Both oils have to mix with fuel.they need to

here i would disagree. i do not see any stage where fuel is intentionally mixed with oil on a ficht or etec. like we agree the oil is distributed directly to the lubrication points ( mainly crankshaft bearings and cylinder walls) and then after work burned off with the combustion . fuel is injected directly into the cylinders and immediately ignited, so it never sees the crankcase , the oil is just burned off as a waste process of the combustion without being first mixed . the fuel which is injected is for sure pure fuel and not a fuel/oil mix.

so for a specialized DFI oil it was never a goal to reach a good mixing quality with fuel but to concentrate on other factors - it may work on premixing engines, but like said on the XD50 canister which i use for my 150 ficht ram it is mentioned that it is not recommended for use beyond direct injection engines.

i have a also a 5hp yamaha 2stroke as a kicker- it burns any tc-w3 brand ( mostly shell or castrol) at 100:1 and also runs virtually smoke free without any issues. here i would not get the idea to mix the ( at least in europe) very expensive XD50
 

pecheux

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Re: Using Amsoil Saber in my V4 115hp Evinrude (1978) - my experiences

But Amsoil Injector is recommended to mix at 50:1 ratio in premix as per Amsoil on their web site ... and I have been using it as such for the past 6 years ... cheers
My point to aerobat was that if he uses Amsoil Saber at either 75:1 or 100:1 in his OB ... he can therefore use the Amsoil Injector at 50:1
or any other oil for that mather.

Regards
 

strokersquid

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Re: Using Amsoil Saber in my V4 115hp Evinrude (1978) - my experiences

ultimately DI oil has to mix to be burned, but it does not have to do that first as in a standard tcw-3. But I do not think you can equate any old synthetic tcw-3 and a DI oil. Technically you can run a tcw-3 in a DI. The engine manufacturers cannot by law say you must use their oil or a non tcw-3. But there is some difference.
 

BillP

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Re: Using Amsoil Saber in my V4 115hp Evinrude (1978) - my experiences

ultimately DI oil has to mix to be burned, but it does not have to do that first as in a standard tcw-3. But I do not think you can equate any old synthetic tcw-3 and a DI oil. Technically you can run a tcw-3 in a DI. The engine manufacturers cannot by law say you must use their oil or a non tcw-3. But there is some difference.

They cannot tell you what brand but they CAN tell you what specs the oil must meet...and TCW-III is a spec. Also, several yrs back I wrote the NMMA (the tcw people). My question was about amsoil not being certified but advertising to use "where" tcw is specified. The nmma had no problem with amsoil saying that but...they said TCW-III oils have a seal on the containers...and if it has a seal but isn't officially certified they would prosecute. Only certified oils can have TCW-III legally on the container.

bp
 

jaykibo

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Re: Using Amsoil Saber in my V4 115hp Evinrude (1978) - my experiences

1.5 years on and I am still running the same outboard on a 75:1 mixture of Amsoil Saber. Almost every outing I am pulling a wakeboarder/skiier. The engine is still working just fine. Any issues I have had with the engine have not been due to the oil.

The bottom line. I am happy with the oil and will continue to use it. I am too worried to lean it out above 75:1 again, so I will just stick to what I know works best for my engine.
 
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Re: Using Amsoil Saber in my V4 115hp Evinrude (1978) - my experiences

And I run TCW-3 oils at 50:1 with no oil related problems. Sorry, but I don't see any upside of running an oil that's not recommended by engine manufacturers and at a leaner than recommended ratio. Maybe it's good stuff, I don't know. But I feel a lot more confident using what the engine manufacturers have tested and are willing to recommend.
 
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