VHF question

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mac3

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
105
I have a VHF radio which is next to useless. Ok for line of sight up to a couple of miles but I wouldn't like to pin a distress call on it. I have a 2 metre mast mounted less than 1 metre from the receiver, the cabled is rolled up under the instrument cluster. I have been told there could be interference from the electrics, is this true? I would have no problem sitting the aireal (think I need help with spelling) on the opposite side of the cabin if this is the answer.
cheers
David
 

LippCJ7

Vice Admiral
Joined
Sep 20, 2010
Messages
5,431
Re: VHF question

David there are some things that concern me but overall your setup is typical, what I will tell you is that you are out matched and that you need help, My services are cheap if you are near but would be expensive for you down under HOWEVER I am open anytime you need me to come down for simply my expenses.....


some basics,

You should only leave a little bit of extra cable, too much extra does decrease the amount of RF(Radio Frequency) that reaches the Antenna, especially if it is coiled up. High quality cable and connectors are only worth the quality of workmanship of the terminating or the quality of the connector assembly, this is pretty easy but a badly assembled connector will eliminate all of the other quality aspects of your setup, low loss cable, gain antenna etc etc. There is only one way to properly check and tune your setup and that is with a SWR meter, all radio shops/guys use them and you can probably get it done at any CB or commercial radio shop near you. They can also cut out your extra cable and reassemble it properly and then tune everything to work properly, if you have it in you to get or have access to a SWR meter we can go from there, but you really need this meter to test your setup, it is possible your antenna is bad, or even wrong for your frequencies we have no idea, if you have a make and model number that would help a bunch or we can direct you to the purchase of a new setup but again even after you get new stuff I would still tell you that you should get a meter on it to tune it properly or at least verify that it works as it should.
 

UncleWillie

Captain
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Messages
3,995
Re: VHF question

VHF is Line of Sight. The higher off the water you can get the AERIALs the better.
You may be expecting too much.
Small Boat to boat, ~5 miles.
Small Boat to 500 ft Coast Guard Antenna tower. ~10-15 miles.
The 25 miles quoted on the box, 120 foot Aircraft Carrier Radio Mast to CG tower.

Spell Checking in iboats Here.
 

Bob_VT

Moderator & Unofficial iBoats Historian
Staff member
Joined
May 19, 2001
Messages
26,097
Re: VHF question

I feel your frustration.

First that coiled up extra wire is acting as a "choke" and creating a problem for you. I have my General License for radio and I have seen that before since people install ALL the wire and fail to trim and re-solder the connector.

Here is a good article from the iboats Blog in reference to radio. http://www.iboats.com/blog/ask-the-experts-marine-vhf-radio-range/

Once you get your antenna feed line straightened out.....that will help. My suggestion is to seek out some Amateur Radio Operators in your area and ask for set up assistance. ;)
 

Home Cookin'

Fleet Admiral
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
9,715
Re: VHF question

I recall that the extra cable should not be coiled as it affects reception; better to bunch it like a figure 8.

How do you know your range is limited?
 

UncleWillie

Captain
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Messages
3,995
Re: VHF question

... How do you know your range is limited?

Agree!

You should be able to hear Coast Guard and Weather Broadcasts for a few miles after their towers go out of sight over the horizon.
The key is knowing EXACTLY where the broadcast towers are actually located.
They are often nowhere near the Coast Guard or Weather stations.
They often share the huge towers of Radio and TV stations many miles from the harbors.
You will NOT be able to Transmit with your 25 watts at 10 feet as far as you can listen to their 500 watts at 700 feet.

The coiled up, over length, antenna cable will degrade performance a small amount.
Do not expect the improvement to be like Day and Night!

Determine for certain that you actually have a problem before you try to fix it.
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,756
Re: VHF question

1) Roll the cable up in a large diameter loop(12" or so) and you will be fine.
2) Route the cable and store the excess away from other electrical wiring.
 

fairbank56

Cadet
Joined
Nov 17, 2011
Messages
23
Re: VHF question

My experience is as a professional marine electronics service technician for 37 years. Coiling the excess cable has absolutely no effect on performance other than loss due to cable length. Typical cable length that come with marine antenna's is 20'. Going from 20' to 3' isn't going to give you any user noticeable improvement. The only choking effect that coiled coax has is on undesirable currents on the outside of the coax shield in which case, choking them off is a desirable thing. This is generally not necessary with marine VHF antenna's. Randomly coiling coax does not make a good choke anyway. It would need to be coiled on a form with the turns tightly against one another. There are many many myths propagated by laymen and hams who really don't know what they are talking about. It's more likely you are expecting too much from an antenna that is simply mounted too low. You need someone knowledgeable to test your antenna system preferably with an antenna analyzer to determine if you really have an antenna problem.

Eric
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,756
Re: VHF question

There are many many myths propagated by laymen and hams who really don't know what they are talking about.
I know a HAM guy who is like that. The things he believes makes me cringe.
 

UncleWillie

Captain
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Messages
3,995
Re: VHF question

Eric,

You can get a Big AMEN from me, and a +1 to boot. :D

I try to tread lightly whenever this kind of subject comes up because of all the VoDo Electronics that comes along with it and how much people get upset if you try to kill their pet fix. :rolleyes:
Now that you have opened the can of worms and thrown them on the carpet.... :eek:

Mac3; What is your definition of a couple of miles?
A mile or two across the bay, or 5 miles out to sea but 15 miles down the coast?

Bill.
Amateur Extra.
FCC General Radiotelephone w/Radar
 

Mac3

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
105
Re: VHF question

Thanks guys, looks like I started an entertaining thread! I have a GME antenna and receiver, supposedly matched. The install instructions specifically said not to cut the cable, that's why it is coiled up. I thought that might be because you would change the impedance etc etc. (a little knowledge...) I'm ok fitting a plug to it if need be. We have coast guard repeaters set up right around Tasmania and on a yacht I sail on with a deck mounted antenna-or aerial-you can speak to anyone anywhere, that's what got me thinking about the performance of my set.
thanks
David
 

jhebert

Ensign
Joined
Jul 24, 2005
Messages
903
Re: VHF question

VHF Radio range is not line-of-sight.

Coaxial transmission line can be coiled without affecting the flow of current inside the transmission line.
 

Georgesalmon

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Apr 14, 2012
Messages
1,793
Re: VHF question

Everyone above seems to have more real knowledge than me. Though I seem to remember that it is also important to make sure your antenna is as perpendicular to the world as possible (don't remember why why exactely). It is also important to make sure your raidio ground is very good. Some radios (like mine) have another ground connection besides the electrical negative one.
 

SteveMcD

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Messages
182
Re: VHF question

SWR meter is a good idea, make sure you use a vhf one. A cb meter may not have tight enough tolerances. Vhf is line of sight, It doesn't "skip".
 

Triton II

Commander
Joined
Nov 23, 2004
Messages
2,479
Re: VHF question

I also have a GME VHF transceiver Mac3, it's a GX-600. My antenna is a 2.1m Pacific and is mounted only a couple of feet from the radio. You are right that the instructions specifically state not to cut the cable. The 5m (from memory) cable is coiled in a 30mm diameter coil and cable-tied to keep it that way. It sits in the right hand console away from other wiring. I get about 10nm range to our local Volunteer Marine rescue centre. You can only just see the antenna mounted in the avatar pic so here's a closer view. You can just see the coast on the horizon on the right hand side of the picture.
IMG_2426-3.jpg

Hope this helps,

TII
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top