VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle *UPDATE* PLEASE HELP

[363coupe]

Specs:
1996 FourWinns Horizon 200
Volvo Penta 5.0Fi Serial # T01291736
Volvo Penta SX Drive

Short history on the boat. I bought the boat this winter and it was in terrible condition. I've redone the interior & exterior and now I have engine problems.

First time out it flood smoked BAD at idle and would backfire, hesitate, and die if you got it above 1,500 RPM's. I went home and pulled the fuel/water seperator filter and there were numerous redish/orange gel clumps in it. I drained the fuel tank, took all the fuel lines off and cleaned them as well as cleaning the screens on the pumps and installed a new fuel/water seperator filter.

Second time out it started great but still flood smoked bad at idle and was surging. When I hit the throttle in ran great, couldn't have asked for it to run any better but it was still flooding and surging at idle. After running it for 20-30 min at cruising speed, it died as if you cut the key off. No spit, spudder, backfire, nothing, it just died. Wouldn't crank back up or even act like it was trying to crank. After about 4 hours it fired right back up and ran fine.

I had a new coil that I had bought for another boat so I decided to put it on. I'm thinking the coil may be getting hot and failing causing it to die out of the blue but that purely a guess.

I'm stumped on the flood smoke and surging though. I'm sure it's a sensor problem but which one? I also had the ignition module checked out yesterday and it sheck out to be good.

Can anyone guide me in a direction that may correct these problems? Do you think the coil may be the culprit for it shutting off out of the blue?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[363coupe]

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

One more thing, there's an inline fuel filter in a hose connecting to a sensor. On the first attempt I wasn't getting any fuel what so ever to it but on the second attempt there was a little fuel coming in. I'd say it filled up about an 1/8 full. Here's a pic:

 

[AlmostFamous]

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

If you get an EEc-IV code scanner for an 1981-1995 Ford, you can pull trouble codes. That be the first place I'd start. There is also a way to get them to flash out on an analog Volt Ohm Meter by jumping two pins on the diag connector. I'll look around and see if I can find the info. The code reader makes life alot easier and they are usually less than $40.

That fuel filter in your pic is not factory. If I'm not mistaken it appears to be run into the MAP sensor. If that is indeed the MAP sensor, that fuel line should actually be a vacuum line connected to the intake manifold. I'll look at mine tonight and see.

Did you put that on there or a previous owner?

 

[363coupe]

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

The previous owner put it there. I thought it was a vacuum line as well but there's fuel coming to it?

 

[AlmostFamous]

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

Weird. Let me check mine and see if it's vacuum or fuel. I do know mine does have a white in-line filter thing. When these engine were installed in cars/trucks that sensor saw vacuum only. Again, I'm assuming it's the MAP sensor.

Also, when a MAP sensor fails, you can get some of the same problems you are seeing.

You may want to check your oil as well. If it's having these kinds of problems, you may have a lot of fuel in your oil. Which can cause lots of bigger issues. Washed out bearings etc.

 

[363coupe]

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

I've checked the oil and it appears to be ok. Just a faint smell of fuel.

 

[363coupe]

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

I hooked a code scanner up to it last night and it showed codes 12 & 22. One of them being the MAP sensor. I put a new MAP sensor on it and replaced both Temp sensors on the intake. I hooked it to the hose and ran it for a while. The first 10 min or so, it was still flood smoking bad and idleing rough. After the 10 min the idle smoothed up a little and the flood smoke is just about non existant but was still surging at idle. I plan on changing the oil today and hopefully put it in the water to see how it does.

Any thoughts??

 

[AlmostFamous]

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

I checked my boat last night. There should be no fuel in that line to the MAP sensor. My MAP sensor has a vacuum line that runs under the upper intake to a T fitting.

I would double check where that hose running to your MAP sensor goes and I would get that fuel filter out of there.

 

[363coupe]

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

I replaced the filter with a new one. The line does run to the vacuum port under the upper intake. When I ran it last night with the new filter, there wasn't any fuel getting in to it.

 

[AlmostFamous]

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

Are you getting any codes now that you've replaced the MAP and TEMP sensors?

 

[363coupe]

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

No, none at all.

 

[Maclin]

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

Did you replace that inline fuel filter with just a vacuum line? or leave it in? I would think it should not be there at all, and just a plain length of vacuum line be used for that porting.

 

[363coupe]

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

I replaced the fuel filter with a new one. Same vacuum line. Do you think that the filter is throwing off the reading to the MAP sensor since it's a slight restriction?

 

[AlmostFamous]

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

I think it is. Mine has what appears to be a one way check valve in line on the vacuum line. On the cars/trucks it's just a straight vacuum line run to the intake.

Also, I'd pull a spark plug and see how bad they are. With that thing running so rich, it's possible you've fixed it with the new MAP/filter removal but it might be hard to tell if the plugs got fouled out.

 

[Maclin]

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

The one way check valve is to protect the map sensor from a backfire condition. A fuel filter might actually help cause a bigger pop in that event! In any event (haha) you need to go back to stock plumbing and I am sure the filter was not stock plumbing there.

 

[363coupe]

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

I'm still having problems and I'm totally lost. A quick recap, the boat was flooding extremely bad at idle. I replaced the map sensor, both temp sensors, new cap & rotor button, adjusted TPS voltage to .98.
After doing this, it was still flooding but then a new problem came up. It would surge bad above 3,000 rpm's.

I pulled the upper intake off and removed the injectors and fuel rail. Cleaned them to the best of my ability and re-installed them. I noticed the fuel pressure regulator had gas coming out of the vacuum port so I replaced it as well. Now it idles great, no flood smoke but still surges above 3,000 rpm's. It's also idleing around 1,500 rpms now and I checked the TPS voltage again and now it wont go below 1.08.

The fuel pressure in the high side holds a steady 39-40 psi and on the low side it holds 8-9psi

Someone please help me figure out this surging problem. It's driving me crazy!!

 

[BreakOutAnotherThousand]

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

I'm still having problems and I'm totally lost. A quick recap, the boat was flooding extremely bad at idle. I replaced the map sensor, both temp sensors, new cap & rotor button, adjusted TPS voltage to .98.
After doing this, it was still flooding but then a new problem came up. It would surge bad above 3,000 rpm's.

I pulled the upper intake off and removed the injectors and fuel rail. Cleaned them to the best of my ability and re-installed them. I noticed the fuel pressure regulator had gas coming out of the vacuum port so I replaced it as well. Now it idles great, no flood smoke but still surges above 3,000 rpm's. It's also idleing around 1,500 rpms now and I checked the TPS voltage again and now it wont go below 1.08.

The fuel pressure in the high side holds a steady 39-40 psi and on the low side it holds 8-9psi

Someone please help me figure out this surging problem. It's driving me crazy!!

I had surging over 2500 RPMs, and high fuel pressure, same as yours.

Check the pressure regulator at the fuel cell.
Pull the vacuum line from the top of the fuel pump, and see if the pump holds vacuum.

I cant tell you that was MY problem definitively yet, still waiting for VP to send me a new pump.
Everything else tested out well.

 

[BreakOutAnotherThousand]

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

Is this a Ford or GM?
My issue was with a GM motor. Sorry.

 

[363coupe]

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

Re: VP 5.0Fi Floods and Surges at Idle

Its a Ford 5.0L.