water in distributer!!! 77' merc 1150

[mke039]

Maybe someone can help me here. I just bought a nice glastron v196 with 77 merc 1150. I tested the compression, all good. I then noticed no spark. I saw an excellent post on how to test switchbox and coil....all fine.
Then I pulled the distributer apart and found about a cup of water!!!
How the heck does water get in the distributer?
I am wondering if whole assembly including trigger is blown to hell.
Can anyone help m e out here, I am scratching my head on this one.
Thanks

 

[emckelvy]

Re: water in distributer!!! 77' merc 1150

Well, hopefully it wasn't because the motor was dunked in the drink!!! ;(

There's a vent hole in the side of the cap, if I recall, and there should be a 'breather' in this hole. If the breather was missing, maybe water spray got in there. That's an awful lot of water, though, not very likely that the motor would run at all. Even a small amount of condensation could cause misfire.

Looks like you've narrowed the problem to the dist and I think we know why! So, you'll need to be replacing the trigger assy. Basically a complete distributor rebuild since it all has to come apart.

Recommend you get a factory shop manual, otherwise you can use the forum's Search feature to find all the info on dist rebuild.

One major caveat, the rotor is permanently cast to the rotor shaft so don't try to pry it off. The rotor/shaft assy is Extremely expensive so you really really don't want to break it!!!

You'll also want to replace both the upper and lower rotor shaft bearings (readily avail at most auto parts stores or bearing specialty houses). There's a snap ring holding in the larger, lower ball bearing.

This snap ring gets brittle over time and breaks, then you have shrapnel flying around the distributor and you can imagine the damage that would cause!

I picked up a suitable snap ring at the local auto parts store for my 1350 dist when it self-destructed. Or order the factory part, it's not much $$.

You'll need to pick up a proper tool for pulling the flywheel (if necessary, and be careful not to damage the distributor drive belt - no prying etc). Might be one avail here, if not check with your Merc dlr or try ebay motors.

You can search the iboats store for a replacement trigger housing. If you can't find a suitable one, I'd recommend getting a CDI-Brand replacement from this site:

http://www.boatfix.com/searchcdi.asp

Here's a good place to find parts diagrams for your motor:

http://www.mercruiserparts.com/SelectModelType3.asp?class_id=2

HTH & Happy Wrenching............ed

 

[mke039]

Re: water in distributer!!! 77' merc 1150

Ed,
Thanks for all the information! I have reached the same conclusions you have made after hours of my head in the manual. I have scoured ebay and craigslist posts for my distributor and have made the realization that they are worth their weight in gold, only harder to find. It is funny but I could buy an old Merc for less than I am going to pay for the few parts I need.
The procedure to remove the distributor does require the removal of the flywheel, and I am looking for a suitable tool. I have not yet found the location on this site where I can buy and sell stuff.
You are right that the bearings can be had fairly cheap. Thanks for the post and moral support, my wife is starting to look at me a little funny about the 'cheap' boat I bought.

 

[mke039]

Re: water in distributer!!! 77' merc 1150

After looking at the diagrams, I found that the distributor cap was installed without the gasket. This seems to offer the most likely explaination as to why all the water was in the cap!
This is also the least expensive part in the distributor!

 

[Droll]

Re: water in distributer!!! 77' merc 1150

The procedure to remove the distributor does require the removal of the flywheel, and I am looking for a suitable tool.

No it doesn't, maybe easier with the flywheel out the way but it's possible to remove the dist. with the flywheel in place...

On top of the timing pulley ( distributor ) there is an small screw... remove this one and you can remove the top, and the remove the belt ( carefully ) .
Now you should be able to pull the pulley itself up and of the shaft, you will then have excess to the 3 bolts holding the distributor in place (might be fiddly to hold the nuts but

As for the trigger itself... have you tried to give it a good cleaning ??
The hall element should be relatively well protected for water, so a good cleaning and maybe a little trip into the kitchen oven ( keep the heat under 50C /122F as you just want the water to evaporate ) might do the trick .

It's worth a try , as you have see... they are a worth some $$

New bearings are a good investment anyway ...
Mercury part # 30-26379 and
Mercury part # 30-20066 ( this one are a bit expensive thou... just below $ 50.- )


Arne Kjetil

 

[mke039]

Re: water in distributer!!! 77' merc 1150

thanks arne,
It may be verboten on the site, so I appologize in advance for not being up on the rules but what outfit to you buy your parts from? I would like to get the parts fast and inexpensive (who doesn't?).

 

[emckelvy]

Re: water in distributer!!! 77' merc 1150

Arne has a point, if your distributor has thru-bolts you can loosen the nuts on the bottom and pull the dist down without pulling the flywheel. It's a bit tricky but can be done.

Unfortunately on later models, Mercury changed the mounting style and went to blind-tapped holes in the distributor, with the (3) hold-down bolts threading-in from above. In that case the flywheel is in the way of at least one bolt.

Now, there is a way to pull enough of the flywheel (if you have to) to get your dist job done.

Just remove the bolts holding the flywheel flex-plate/magnet/starter ring assy to the center hub.

These are 5/16"-NF bolt which must be re-torqued to approx 24 ft-lbs upon reassembly. They also require a drop of Loctite Red on the threads to lock them in place.

A few caveats on this 'cheater' method of flywheel removal:

1) Best to line up the belt timing marks with #1 cyl at or close to TDC. There is an arrow on one rib of the dist pulley that will point straight at the timing mark on the flywheel, when things are properly aligned. The dist pulley cover Arne mentioned must be pulled in order to see the arrow.

2) Once aligned, don't move the crankshaft from this position. Note the relationship between the flywheel flexplate and the center hub (which remains on the crank). Make sure it all goes back the same way or you'll never get the timing set right.

3) Note the 'stackup' of the flywheel flex-plate backing rings, top and bottom. Make sure they are clean & free of rust prior to reassembly.

If your dist has thru-bolts this of course won't be necessary. It's just a bit tricky to get at the back nut but if you use a small combination wrench it's do-able.

G'luck, keep us posted on your progress.......ed

p.s. check your mailbox, you'll have a P.M shortly..........

 

[mke039]

Re: water in distributer!!! 77' merc 1150

Thanks for all that Ed, very helpful!
It looks like I need to pull the flywheel after all, the bolts are the tapped kind into the dist.
I bought a harmonic balancer puller from Autozone which should do the trick. I am going to pull the starter too as I will be rebuilding the carbs, fuel pump and hoses while it is still well below freezing here.
I went online and found my engine for sale in craigslist....for $300! The guy told me it ran fine except for a carb hemorrhaging fuel so he bought a new engine. I had talked to a guy in WA with a distributor for $225, which is an excellent deal too, but the math here was pretty simple.
Now I have the luxury of an engine to cannibalize while I get the other up and running. I have ordered the water pump kit as well, so I have my work cut out for me.
For the heck of it, I ordered the bearings and assorted other parts for the wet distributor, maybe I can get two working engines out of this.
I would be checking if the engine has spark right now after drying and cleaning the rotor and cap, but that little carbon button that provides rotor contact with the cap had a broken spring. For $10 I ordered 2 and will wait for them to come.
I will let you know how this turns out, and thanks again!

 

[mke039]

Re: water in distributer!!! 77' merc 1150

Gotta love this site! I was looking for a flywheel holder to remove the bolt and saw that someone has mentioned on a post here that an impact gun would do the trick. It did! I heated the bolt slightly with an acetylene torch.
Removed flywheel and then was able to get to the bolts on distributor. The puppy actually seems to be ok, so I am going to wait for the new carbon brush and install and try it out.
Does anyone know how to check the trigger on the bench, still installed on distributor?
I also removed the starter and then rebuilt the fuel pump. The kit sure seemed pretty flimsy. The check valves seemed to be ok though.
I then removed the lower unit, and as suspected the water pump was trashed as well as the pump housing.
Fortunately the shaft and shifter seems to be in good shape.
Again, anyone who knows what to test on the trigger while it is spinnable on the distributor...holler!
Thanks

 

[mke039]

Re: water in distributer!!! 77' merc 1150

As ridiculous as it seems, it was cheaper to by an old complete outboard than to hunt and peck (and PAY) for parts.
I have some pics of the "new" old engine. I spun it up, checked compressions and now have to decide which one I am going to go with!

 

[emckelvy]

Re: water in distributer!!! 77' merc 1150

More Parts is Good! You're well on your way to expanding your collection and becoming a Boner-Fied Mercoholic!!!

Not a bad deal, especially since the powerhead seems ok.

A good way to test a distributor without having to completely reinstall it is to reconnect the (3) distributor wires to the switchbox; attach a temporary ground wire (or use the existing dist ground wire if handy) to ensure the distributor is electrically grounded to the engine block.

Pull the coil wire out of the coil then unscrew it from the dist cap. Plug the wire back into the coil and place the free end of the coil wire approx 3/8-1/2" from a good ground.

Turn the ign to "ON" and spin the rotor shaft. You should see a nice, fat spark jumping to ground.

I've done this many times to motors which come in with no spark, very easy to disconnect the suspect dist then hook up a known good one and twiddle the rotor shaft. Even with everything intact, you can still hear the spark jumping inside the distributor cap. Talk about an easy diagnosis, less than 5 minutes and 9 times out of 10 it's a bad trigger.

Since you already know (from the "Merc CDI Test") that the rest of your ign is good, give that spare dist a try and see what happens.

You oughta have just about all the spare parts you'll need to get one good runner. If the other one checks out, you've got yourself a backup or some extra $$$ by turning that one into a runner too, then back to the Craigslist it goes!!!

Gotta luv it, eh?............ed

 

[mke039]

Re: water in distributer!!! 77' merc 1150

Ah haa! The lights come on. I am getting a handle on what the trigger does. Just for fun I did a compression test to the spare engine, and found that it sparks fine so I know I have a good distributer/trigger there.
In fact there is nothing wrong with the spare engine except for some serious corrosion on the exhaust cover on the bottom near the shift/throttle slide. It could even be rotted all the way through. I might go look at someone with a mid 80's 90hp (which I believe is the same block?) who is selling the engine (he says it was running) with a spare tilt-trim for $200!
My garage could be home to another engine soon!
It is crazy but I would spend that much on a part or two when I could have em all!
Thanks for the info on trigger test, that really made it click here.

 

[emckelvy]

Re: water in distributer!!! 77' merc 1150

My garage could be home to another engine soon!QUOTE]

And this is how the Mercury Madness begins...........:0

You may as well plan for a new shop bldg or addition right now, you're well on your way to the Dark (Mercury Phantom Black) side!!!!!!

Better grab that $200 motor while you can, the price on ebay of a PT&T setup or even the cylinders is astronomical. Hard to lose $$$ on deals like that.

Happy Merc Hunting.......ed

 

[mke039]

Re: water in distributer!!! 77' merc 1150

Hi Ed,
That is exactly what I did! I bought a 80's 90hp which is the same engine as the 115 except for the electronic ignition. I am in the process of stripping it although it makes me sad as the guy said it was running when he took it off. He threw in an extra power tilt and 2 props, so I have to say that it was a good buy.
Now to turn some wrenches....

 

[mke039]

Re: water in distributer!!! 77' merc 1150

Well I got the engine back together. The distributor cap was corroded badly and would not conduct from the coil/brush to the rotor. I ground down a small dremel grinding wheel until it fit into the distributor brush hole and ground the corrosion off. I spun up the engine today and got great spark on all cylinders.
I made a spark plug holder with set screw for my $14 Harbor Freight dial indicator, and was able to set the timing pointer at exactly .464 before TDC.
I hooked up my $50 (ebay) Merc contols and got good connections to the engine. Even the push to choke worked perfectly..
Now the problem..
I replaced the water pump and tried to put the lower unit in Forward to prepare to reinstall. I know the shaft spins clockwise when the engine runs. I get Reverse, Neutral but it only clicks when I try to spin the prop and therefore the shaft for forward...is this a problem?

 

[emckelvy]

Re: water in distributer!!! 77' merc 1150

It's normal to ratchet in one direction and lock up the other way when in Fwd gear. Otherwise if you were going Great Guns down the waterway, the motor dies and locks up the prop, it's gonna come kicking up something fierce. With the ratcheting action, the prop just freewheels.

So, when you spin the prop in Fwd it 'catches' when rotated CCW, and freewheels in the "driven" direction.

It's not gonna hurt to spin the prop in the opposite direction just a wee bit to engage the driveshaft. The impeller blades, being brand-new anyway, do not have a 'set' and it won't damage them to turn bass-ackwards. Any blades that do turn around the opposite way will quickly right themselves once the motor is lit off.

I've always installed L/U's this way with no issues ever. The other alternatives would be to reinstall in Reverse since the prop catches in either direction (straight-cut dogs, no ratchet action); or install in any gear and have an assistant rotate the flywheel (unless you're a Na'vi with unnaturally long arms!!!).

I don't like to install with the L/U & control box in Reverse since you end up fighting the reverse lockout mechanism. No big deal there, although it's just easier for me to have it in Fwd.

HTH, sounds like you're Gittin' 'er Dun!..........ed

 

[mke039]

Re: water in distributer!!! 77' merc 1150

Got it back up and bolted on. Just got done firing it up and it sounded sweet.
Someone gave me a Tach (mine is on the boat a few miles away), but it strangely quit working after a few minutes.

I put it in gear to see if it would idle ok, and it did. Unfortunately without the tach working I couldn't do much in the way of timing.

Also I was on the muffs and noticed that it almost stopped peeing in Forward.
I shut it down but was very happy today!

 

[mke039]

Re: water in distributer!!! 77' merc 1150

Fired up the engine again today and did the link and sync. It came out perfectly. I then tried to shut it off with the key...but it kept running. Also the tach did its dead routine again after a few minutes of running. I had to pull the gas connection and wait for the carbs to run dry.

I took apart the controls and found that all the wiring was very rotten to the key switch. The tach wire as bare for several inches. Just spent the day cutting bad wire and resoldering it all back together again. That sure is alot of wire stuffed into the control box! It was difficult to stuff it all back in and close it up.

I dread having to open it up again to attach the control cables.

What we do to save a few (thousand) bucks!

Now to paint the old girl up and turn my focus to the actual boat!

 

[mke039]

Re: water in distributer!!! 77' merc 1150

Oh, and I figured out why the distributor was full of water!

There are two outlets for the coolant to the **** hole on this engine. One is on the top of the head, and another is between the 3 and 4 spark plug on the head. This one was had no hose on it at all and must have just poured water into the engine compartment.

I removed the elbow and installed a plug, and only vent the top into the **** hole which works quite well.