Water in top of 4.3 mercruiser - hydrolocked once - pictures!

[eighty2scrambler]

Ok everyone I'm scratching my head big time. I'm going to attempt to explain my issues that I've been working through over the past few months. I have pictures to help explain.

A previous thread is here:
http://forums.iboats.com/mercruiser...-3l-exhaust-manifolds-intake-both-573310.html


Back in Late August 2012, i was on the lake all weekend with my 1998 CHapparal 18' 4.3L Merc with alpha one outdrive.
We had been skiing and wakeboarding all weekend long (3 days) and on Saturday the rain came. The boat stayed anchored in the water all day/night. It rained probably for 12 hours with large gusts of wind.... so much that it blew our campsite to shreds...(there is a reason I said that)
It literallly rained all day and night

The next day (sunday) I go out to check on the boat... obviously the entire inside is wet, but the Bilge pump held up good... no water in the bottom other than what was too low for the pump to get out. I fired it up and we went on a slow stroll around the lake.
After about a 10 minute boat ride I decided to Ski, As I am behind the boat skiing for about 15 seconds all of a sudden the boat loses power. Wife said she dont know what happened, So i crawl back in the boat and it fires right up. But doesn't idle good and doesn't have any power. trying to idle it higher and get it to "work itself out" it hydrolocks. (not knowing it was a hydrolock at the time). So I get towed back in.

I didn't mess with it at the lake that day, we packed up camp and drove the 4 hours home. The next week I try to turn it over with a loud familar hydrolock "CLUNK", I then found water in most all the cylinders (Starboard middle and port Middle being the most),

I took all the plugs out, and turned it over and over, lots of water cam eout of the cylinders... I put the plugs back in, and the boat fired right up and rand good.
I hooked water to it and it ran for abotu 10 -15 minutes no problem. Pulled plugs back out and they were pretty dry.
After doing research (see previous thread), I had thought that the water came from the Manifolds breaking down (1 piece merc manifolds that are 14 years old)..
I removed manifolds and tested them with hooking a garden hose to input and flushed water through it seeing none come through the exhaust...
Next I thought it could be the intake gasket leaking...(probably would have hydrolocked with the water running in the driveway again)

So far I've done a compression test (175-180lbs in all cylinders)
- tested manifolds
- checked intake gaskets (couldn't find any breakage or signs of a bad gasket)
Inside the intake LOTS of MIlky oil, Pulled valve cover gaskets, LOTS of milky oil (see pictures)

So now i'm thinking, Could that much water REALLY have "blown" in to the Carb and down the throat of the intake???
Surely not...

But where else could the water be coming from? A good compression test result should rule out Head Gaskets, or cracked block right?

The oil color on top of engine is a very milky color, I pulled the oil filter to find a darker, but milky color..
The DIPSTICK shows no signs of water in the oil. The oil is a very good color.

My thoughts are to put all new gaskets on, and put it back together and hope for the best. Can anyone shed any light on this issue??

A few things I noticed that bother me are:
Very Corroded water ports on the intake and the top of engine (see pics)
Some rust on starboard side exhaust ports (see pictures)

I went to local Merc store to buy more gaskets... the ones he gave me are a different material and differnt pattern than the ones that came off.. should these work? (see 2gaskets.jpg)

For those of you that actually read this whole thing and respond, I am forever grateful. I really am scratching my head.

If I am missing anythign obvious please let me know.
Thanks so much!

 

[tazrig]

Re: Water in top of 4.3 mercruiser - hydrolocked once - pictures!

It Sounds like Don S. and Bond-o (2 of the best Merc Gurus on this site) correctly trouble shot the problem to a bad manifold design in the prior post and that you need to change them to the new 2 piece design. Just based on the below quote from you:

"So I got brave, hooked water to muffs on leg, fired up the boat and ran it at 1000 RPM for about 15 minutes. It never missed, hiccuped, just ran smooth. However, The Manifold on the starboard side of engine (the side where water came in last weekend) was very very warm, HOT is the correct word. The manifold on the port side of the engine was cool to the touch."

If a manifold is hot to the touch that tells you water isn't flowing through it like it should be. If the internal wall of the manifold rusted through or because of a bad design water snuck under the gasket then water could back flow into your engine and could easily cause hydro lock and milky oil. Sounds like they were right in suggesting going with the 2 piece design as you may well be on borrowed time if you leave it as is. The newer mercruisers (at least on the v-8's) have what's called dry joint exhaust where they separate the water from the exhaust by a much greater distance just to help prevent this from happening.

 

[achris]

Re: Water in top of 4.3 mercruiser - hydrolocked once - pictures!

The gasket you have been given will not work on your engine. You have a Gen+ engine, that gasket is for the Gen II engine. Did you provide a serial number to the dealer? Could you please provide it here.

Firstly, those one piece (bat-wing) manifolds are notorious for leaking and doing exactly what you have described. I would ditch them and get a set of Merc 2 piece manifolds (before doing anything else). Because you need both manifolds and elbows, get the newer style 'dry-joint' units. Next I would plug/block all water exits and pressure test the block, heads and intake. It's not likely the problem, but I would do it as it's not a difficult job and rules that possibility out.

Clean oil on the dipstick is not uncommon even when there is wet oil in the pan. The dipstick lives in a tube that does not have oil circulating, it's just for level indication, so the clean oil in the tube just stays there. If you force air in to the crankcase through that tube, you will them see the milky oil come back into it.

The best way to check those manifolds is with a float test... Find yourself some nice deep water, say 1000'. Carefully put the manifolds in the water and check to see if they float. If they float, they're fine, if they sink, replace them.

Chris.........

 

[StevNimrod]

Re: Water in top of 4.3 mercruiser - hydrolocked once - pictures!

The bulletin Don provided in your other thread is very valuable. A few seasons ago I chased a water in oil problem and will share some of what I recall.

First, there are only so many ways water gets from where it's supposed to be, to where it shouldn't be. This is helpful because it means there are only a finite number of things to look at, as delineated in the bulletin. Something's cracked, or a gasket has failed.

Second, I hastily took the intake manifold off when I was diagnosing my issue and quickly learned that all I did was prevent myself from being able to pressure test the engine. Really all you're after is to bolt the intake down enough to seal off the water ports (at least that's what I did - I wasn't concerned about installing anything else, or even putting down a bead of sealant on the end rails of the block.

Third, you'll probably have to build some type of fixture to get pressure to the engine cooling passages. Air pressure helps since you can hear leaks. I had to use water pressure, so once I got it all hooked up I had to look around and wait for water to start pouring out somewhere. You'll also have to figure out two connections, one to block off the cooling system, one to use as the inlet for whatever pressure you use. I drilled a couple holes in a piece of scrap 1.5" aluminum bar and blocked my cooling system off at the outdrive bell housing. If memory serves, I had to block off a couple other hoses, then I had one that I used to apply pressure.

Fourth, be careful about reading too much into test results. A compression test tells you that you have good compression, but doesn't necessarily rule out some things people like it to. For instance, I had good compression...and a crack in the number one cylinder (which actually tested a few PSI higher than the rest).

Fifth, check your oil level. See if the level is rising. I ended up using water (for pressure) and finding that water would pour out of the spark plug hole when the piston was lower in the cylinder, and water would fill the oil pan when the piston was near the top of the cylinder (above the crack). Keep in mind that you won't always find water on the dipstick since it tends to reside at the very bottom of the pan, in some cases below the reach of the dipstick. Also keep in mind that running it at idle won't really tell you if you fixed your problem. In my case, idling at the dock for a half hour wouldn't make the oil rise or turn milky (at least not on the dipstick), but as soon as I took it out for a run I'd be a quart high and the oil would look like a milkshake.

You'll need to be a bit creative here, but my experience was that the bulletin Don provided was the first necessary tool, then I needed clean oil, a way to pressurize my cooling system, and to put the cooling system back together to test the stuff. Once you can get the thing to leak under pressure, the rest is just isolating bit by bit until you get it dialed in right.

It can be a tedious process, and sometimes doesn't yield results that will make you happy, but if you develop a method you'll figure out the madness. You'll get it sorted.

 

[tazrig]

Re: Water in top of 4.3 mercruiser - hydrolocked once - pictures!

The best way to check those manifolds is with a float test... Find yourself some nice deep water, say 1000'. Carefully put the manifolds in the water and check to see if they float. If they float, they're fine, if they sink, replace them.

Chris.........[/QUOTE]

Love that test! :laugh:

 

[eighty2scrambler]

Re: Water in top of 4.3 mercruiser - hydrolocked once - pictures!

Gentleman, I can't thank you enough for your replies and time you've taken to provide an excellent source of information.

Knowing (from multiple people) these manifolds are a horrible design and that I am living on borrowed time I have to ask one question and play devils advocate.

When I hooked up the water hose and clamps to the Batwing Manifold's input port and ran water through it for 10/15 minutes. All 3 Exhaust ports were dry. Not a drop of water came back through and we had good flow of water out the back portion of the manifold.
Can you provide some sort of explanation as to how Water could Fill the cylinders (while running) with that said?
Trust me, if all I knew I needed was manifolds, i would fork up the money and buy them. But I am trying ensure I dont have a larger problem other than manifolds.

It looks like a pressure test is in order.

I will add the Engine's Serial Number once I get home.

Thanks for all your help!

 

[Bondo]

Re: Water in top of 4.3 mercruiser - hydrolocked once - pictures!

Can you provide some sort of explanation as to how Water could Fill the cylinders (while running) with that said?
Trust me, if all I knew I needed was manifolds, i would fork up the money and buy them. But I am trying ensure I dont have a larger problem other than manifolds.

Ayuh,.... With the motor Runnin', bad manifolds, can't put water in the oil, Period...
But,...
I ain't sayin' ya Don't need a new set of manifolds, as the 1 piece units are a Time Bomb...

It appears to me, that you've possibly got an Intake issue,... post a pic of the bottom of it...

The only things I see of note, in yer pics are, pic 1, what's the black spot in the intake port,..?? crack, break, or just crud,..??

pic 2, the right hand water port, looks like the gasket mighta been failin'...

'n lastly, you've got the wrong gaskets to put it back together, as Chris said...

 

[Don S]

Re: Water in top of 4.3 mercruiser - hydrolocked once - pictures!

You aren't going to get that much water in the oil from the exhaust. Just won't happen. The water would leak in from the manifolds (if they were leaking) and would get into the cylinders through open valves. Then it would have to leak past the rings to get to the oil.
I don't see that happening with 175 psi of compression.

Had rain water got into the engine through the carb (hard to do with the engine cover on) it would have went into the cylinders and it would have been hydrolocked. You said it fired right up after the rains.

What you need to do is put the engine back together with the proper gaskets, (look at the intake manifold passages first) drain the block cooling passages, block off the exhaust manifold water connections and pressure check the engines cooling system. If it doesn't hold pressure, then you have a leak somewhere. Sometimes you can even hear it.

 

[FreeBeeTony]

Re: Water in top of 4.3 mercruiser - hydrolocked once - pictures!

In the 2nd pic.....isn't the gasket going across the water passage in the middle of the head?

Doesn't look right to me..........

 

[Bondo]

Re: Water in top of 4.3 mercruiser - hydrolocked once - pictures!

In the 2nd pic.....isn't the gasket going across the water passage in the middle of the head?

Doesn't look right to me..........

Ayuh,... Vortec heads Tony, that ain't a passage, No port there....

 

[FreeBeeTony]

Re: Water in top of 4.3 mercruiser - hydrolocked once - pictures!

Ahhhhhhh.......

 

[HopinImFloatin]

Re: Water in top of 4.3 mercruiser - hydrolocked once - pictures!

in pic #2, in the lifter valley at the upper left side in the pic (of the valley), is that a crack near the last lifter boss or just a casting line( near the 2 small black specs)?