Water softener - air ingress...epilogue..

[generator12]

From a few weeks ago: I told you all that my softener was causing air ingress during recharge - then amended it to say that the air ingress was occurring independently of the water softener - any time of day, no recharge required!

The problem has ceased...no more air surging. For the past week, the system is performing just fine.

I'm at a loss. (?????)

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Water softener - air ingress...epilogue..

From a few weeks ago: I told you all that my softener was causing air ingress during recharge - then amended it to say that the air ingress was occurring independently of the water softener - any time of day, no recharge required!

The problem has ceased...no more air surging. For the past week, the system is performing just fine.

I'm at a loss. (?????)

Just about everywhere has had a ton of rain this fall....could it be water-level related?...i.e. your well is now much fuller?

 

[Summer Fun]

Re: Water softener - air ingress...epilogue..

We had a foot-valve that had a pinhole from rust that put air in our water system.

Then we upgraded to a submersible pump.

 

[generator12]

Re: Water softener - air ingress...epilogue..

I'm sure water level is not an issue. I replaced the tank three years ago, and the submersible pump two years ago, so all that stuff is new.

I'll continue to work on it until I figure it out - or at least compile a list of the things that could have caused it. (Because it will likely happen again!)

One thing that would be helpful if anyone can provide it is to guide me to something - website or other - that explains exactly how these submersible pump systems are set up, tank and all. I know it's a simple concept, but I've been unable to identify a component that would cause this, unless it's something inside the tank that can lose air into the water and then recharge the air.

 

[j_martin]

Re: Water softener - air ingress...epilogue..

I think Tim's answer is the correct one.

My well water level and water quality will change drastically depending on rainfall in Hinkley, which is 60 miles north of here. That happens to be where the sandstone strata that my will is finished in gets to the surface.

You have a submersible. If the pipe to the pump has a small hole in it, you won't notice it if the hole is below the water line. If it is above the water line, some or all of the water in the pipe will be replaced by air when the pump is off, then be pushed into the tank the next time the pump runs.

I'll bet you a dollar to a doughnut that when the water table goes down again, the gremlin will return. Probably will be next Summer.

Bad news is it might be a harbinger of failure in the well.

 

[generator12]

Re: Water softener - air ingress...epilogue..

Well, you could be right of course.

But I replaced the pump a short time ago and it's some fifty feet below the water line. I'm only six miles from Lake Michigan - water level has not been an issue around this area.

But, again, you may be right. I guess I'll find out, hey?

Thanks for responding.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Water softener - air ingress...epilogue..

Your pump may have sent something up to the check valve that is now dis-lodged itself.

It could have been the check valve sticking and it does not take much.

 

[j_martin]

Re: Water softener - air ingress...epilogue..

Your pump may have sent something up to the check valve that is now dis-lodged itself.

It could have been the check valve sticking and it does not take much.

If the check valve leaked, wouldn't it just leak water from the pressure tank back into the well.

Been there, got the T shirt.

John

 

[generator12]

Re: Water softener - air ingress...epilogue..

I tend to agree with j martin - a leaking check valve would have depleted my tank pressure -- IF -- I understand the system...

As I said, new tank, new pump, and (not mentioned) new PVC pipe from the pump to the wellhead. I did not replace the lateral from the wellhead to the tank. All I can say about that is that the tank does not appear to bleed pressure. If no water is being drawn, the tank pressure holds.

Does anyone know what's inside the tank? I mean if it's not a flexible diaphragm, what else do they use to maintain the air charge? I can't find anything on this.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Water softener - air ingress...epilogue..

Does anyone know what's inside the tank? I mean if it's not a flexible diaphragm, what else do they use to maintain the air charge? I can't find anything on this.

Most (if not all) tanks sold these days have a diaphragm that physically separates the air charge from the water volume.

Over time air can pass through this barrier which is why you have to recharge your tank periodically.
If there were sufficient air getting through to cause your problem, it would indicate a major tear/hole and that does not seem to be what you have described.

Some tanks had an air volume control but my experience with them was not great.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Water softener - air ingress...epilogue..

....Some tanks had an air volume control but my experience with them was not great.

Ditto to that. In addition if you had significant dissolved iron, the oxygenation caused by the subsequent aeration of the water was not good. That same iron would also eventually clog the excess air release orifice causing the tank to overfill with air.

btw, most modern tanks either had a diaphram or a ballon type bladder. You can still buy the old straight walled non-bladder/diaphram tanks. However they are guaranteed to regularly loose their air precharge as the water continually absorbs air under pressure.

 

[generator12]

Re: Water softener - air ingress...epilogue..

"...That same iron would also eventually clog the excess air release orifice causing the tank to overfill with air..."

Boomya, HOW? HOW does it overfill with air? Do these things intake air in some way to maintain pressure, without requiring one to do it manually?

That's the basic information I've been trying to find.

Thanks bud.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Water softener - air ingress...epilogue..

"...That same iron would also eventually clog the excess air release orifice causing the tank to overfill with air..."

Boomya, HOW? HOW does it overfill with air? Do these things intake air in some way to maintain pressure, without requiring one to do it manually?

That's the basic information I've been trying to find.

Thanks bud.

These are only used on older tanks with no bladder or diaphragm.
They do add some air each time the pump cycles, but not with a great deal of precision.
These tanks usually waterlogged anyway...just took longer. Occasionally the tanks would build up too large an air charge....but that was rare.

More common was leaks, failures, and various malfunctions....