What about us "antique" owners?

[Thompy_04]

All this talk about the EPA etc. etc. etc. banning two stroke outboard motors proably makes alot of sense polution wise. But what about us oldie owners that depend on our outboards for enjoyment and fishing pleasure? Is the EPA going to go to four strokers for good, and turn their backs on the carbed two stroke model? If this does happen alot of people are going to be in a DEEP pile of sh*t. I just got into the whole boating deal, and own a 1970 9.5 Johny and a 1960 18 Johny (under construction). Is the EPA going to take my motors away, or am I gonna get to laugh in my soothing cloud of blue smoke? Just some thoughts and questions revolving around the "Two Stroke vs. Four Stroke"

 

[seahorse5]

Re: What about us "antique" owners?

There is no EPA law that bans 2-stroke motors. EPA regulations apply to the average emission output of ALL manufacturer's motors for that particular year, just like average fuel milage on cars, called CAFE. Emission regulations only apply to motors '98 and later. Older motors are grandfathered in.<br /><br />Some bodies of water, such as Lake Tahoe may ban traditional 2 strokes over 10hp. The funny part is that emissions and oil blow-by is usually worse on small motors than on larger ones.

 

[agrazela]

Re: What about us "antique" owners?

I have a 1978 15 foot bowrider with old 2-stroke 70hp that I use both on the bays and at the local lakes. With the kids growing and me wanting to get heavier into saltwater fishing, it is definitely getting to be a bit small. I will be looking to get into a bigger boat in the next year or two or three, and I had the same concerns...with more and more lakes going to 2-stroke bans will I be SOL if I get into another 2-stroke? I am not rich...do I really hafta shell out big bux for young/less-than-fully-proven 4-stroke or EFI 2-stroke marine technology?<br /><br />What I decided is that I will get TWO boats...a saltwater boat and a freshwater boat. The salt will be something like a late 80's/early 90's 18' to 20' center console with a proven 2-stroke. The fresh will be a small aluminum craft that I can power with my electric troller and/or my ol' reliable 2+hp British Seagull (take that, EPA!)<br /><br />I suspect this plan will be far cheaper and easier than trying to find a single 4-stroke or EFI-powered solution that will work for what I want to do.<br /><br />I don't expect this helps any of you freshwater bassboat- or watersports-type guys...<br /><br />My two remaining concerns are:<br />1) Will I be able to resell my current boat?<br />2) Is there any chance older 2-strokes will get banned in bays/inland waterways (or even inshore)?

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: What about us "antique" owners?

I don't think EPA is going to ban older 2-strokes...just too many of them and owners out there. Easier to just let time and natural wear/tear phase them out. Look at all the cars/trucks still on the road from pre-EPA days...same scenario with outboards.

 

[JB]

Re: What about us "antique" owners?

Existing carbed 2 strokes may be banned at more specific lakes, by local authority, but there will be no general ban.<br /><br />Just like old cars that don't meet emissions requirements, they will be "grandfathered". The worst that can happen would be like the old 23 channel CB radios when the 40 channel standard showed up. It became illegal to sell them used (but people continued doing it anyway).<br /><br />I doubt that you will ever find a new outboard on the market that does not meet the standards of the time.

 

[BillP]

Re: What about us "antique" owners?

I don't know about banning old 2 strokes but we had a nice piece of local "wilderness water" changed to a NO MOTOR ZONE (aka NMZ). That took care of ALL the motors. Now it's kayaks and canoes going in to fish the area.

 

[JB]

Re: What about us "antique" owners?

Not even electrics, Bill?<br /><br />Not a bad idea on wilderness water, though. Didn't realize there was any wilderness left in FL aside from the 'Glades and Big Cypress.

 

[BillP]

Re: What about us "antique" owners?

JB,<br />No electrics...just paddle or sail. If you want to check a chart for info...It's at the north end of the Banana River...south end of the NMZ starts where the Port Canaveral locks are on Florida's east coast. <br />Bill

 

[ZmOz]

Re: What about us "antique" owners?

There's a lake here that doesn't allow ANY motors either. Not even swimming is allowed. Too bad it's a good place to fish...

 

[JB]

Re: What about us "antique" owners?

Well, this isn't a new idea. When I lived in Durham, NC back in the 60s I used to fish the Chapel Hill municipal reservoir.<br /><br />No motors of any kind, no pleasure boating, leave your license at the gate when you check in and get it back only after your catch was inspected. They inventoried everything you took in and made sure you took it all out; if you took a bottle of water in you better have the bottle when you left.<br /><br />It was a great fishing hole. Caught a string of 10 bluegills there (fly rod poppers) in April of 1965 that weighed 8 pounds an a couple ounces. All were over 10". I'll bet the picture is still on the bulletin board there. Wish I had a copy.

 

[Thompy_04]

Re: What about us "antique" owners?

Well letting time take its toll makes sense. I guess just not reproducing parts will eventually make all antique motors obsolete. Thats what I'm not looking forward too. Just got my '60 Johny running great today, but not looking forward to "hoping" I can find parts. Old motors are addictive, very. Just got one running today actually my first big accomplishment and am already looking for another.

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: What about us "antique" owners?

Hey Thompy,<br />You'll have to do what the rest of old iron addicts do...find a favorite and then acquire three of whatever it is, plus impellers, etc. That way you have a runner, a backup and a parts horse. Just got a 49 Sea Bee 1.5 hp running tonight...after a few chosen words at the carb. Restoration is next. Check out www.aomci.org if you get a chance...that where us addicts hang out and swap parts.

 

[kd6nem]

Re: What about us "antique" owners?

Californy is the most restrictive so far, and will likely continue to be.<br /><br />Where "two strokes" have been banned, it is not as simple as people make it sound. This is both good and bad. HPDI two strokes which meet the emission requirements are actually legal on Tahoe, just not regular fuel injected or carbureted. <br /><br />But not all four strokes are legal. My old Bearcat 55 is not, because it is carbureted. All legal four strokes must be fuel injected. I never noticed the small engine exemption for Tahoe. If you find it please tell me where! <br /><br />There are a number of bay area locations which have similar restrictions. <br /><br /> Calif. two stroke restrictions <br /><br />So far we haven't heard of any broader effort to outlaw two strokes, even old ones. The restrictions will probably continue to grow in certain locations, but I expect it to be gradual even then. I really don't think there is any need to panic on this matter. (Not yet anyway!)

 

[seahorse5]

Re: What about us "antique" owners?

Bearcat,<br /><br />I gotta eat crow. When Lake Tahoe banned motors that did not meet EPA 2006 or Carb 1 Star emission ratings, they allowed sailboat auxiliaries and outboards under 10hp to be exempt. A year or so ago they recinded that exemption, so there are no tradtional 2-strokes allowed on the water there.<br /><br />By the way, I used to work on those old Bearcats years ago and even applied as a service rep for them. The then owner **** Fisher of Boston Whaler fame gave me the OK, but uncle Sam did not!

 

[seahorse5]

Re: What about us "antique" owners?

Wow, I can't believe that the "parental guidance" software censored the name that Richard Fisher was known as.

 

[kd6nem]

Re: What about us "antique" owners?

hijack:<br />Seahorse, mine is still on a sawhorse in the garage, I'm sad to say. I'm hoping before it gets cold (OK, mildly cold anyway) to get it mounted and started.<br />I thought about making a decal that said "Bipoint Vacuum Induced Fuel Injection" , but the local EPA types might not think it as amusing as I would! (If they actually were bright enough to interpret that to mean "two carburetors")

 

[seahorse5]

Re: What about us "antique" owners?

See if you can find some of those 1-star C.A.R.B. stickers for the back of your Homelite 55 (oops! I mean Bearcat)<br /><br />You could also say it has a "dual venturi fuel induction" system on it.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: What about us "antique" owners?

Originally posted by tim Mc:<br /> Hey Thompy,<br />You'll have to do what the rest of old iron addicts do...find a favorite and then acquire three of whatever it is, plus impellers, etc.

Amen...I'm buying spares for all my boats and I have enough parts and motors to ride by the Harley dealers for decades! That damn ebay is going to do me in yet! And now I find ANOTHER site to aquire more stuff. New and shiny is nice, but early retirement and old stuff that floats and runs and TLC is the name of the game....

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: What about us "antique" owners?

Hey Robby6950,<br />How about a link to that other new site to acquire more stuff? Just curious...like my shop has room for more stuff.