what's the reason for pullout of gaza

ErikDC

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Re: what's the reason for pullout of gaza

Or a Jew taking it in the @$$ because of political correctness? We report, you decide!
 

tommays

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Re: what's the reason for pullout of gaza

i spent two weeks there 20 years ago doing repiars and spent all my time with the common folk<br /><br />people dont seem to realize how BIG THE NOT population is<br /><br />and they were tired of the fight then and it was a heck of a lot better then it is now<br /><br />keeping the land has not given them what they want a safe and secure place to live<br /><br />so there going to try something else because it cant get any worse than it is right now<br /><br />i really dont think people understand what its like to live in a place were there are armed troops everywere even on the beach 24/7<br /><br />tommays
 

crab bait

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Re: what's the reason for pullout of gaza

how long has this pullout been in the making.. ??<br /><br />not as a dream but in reality.. an by who's will/design.. sharron, usa, palistine..
 

ErikDC

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Re: what's the reason for pullout of gaza

I think that Israel should kick all Palestinians out of their country. We can argue until the end of time as to who has the right to be there but the bottom line is that the Palestinians (Muslims)have much of Africa, Southwest Asia and the equatorial islands of Indonesia, etc. The Jews have a tiny sliver along the Med. Let them have it.
 

JB

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Re: what's the reason for pullout of gaza

It is Sharon's idea. A unilateral peace offering to the Palestinians.<br /><br />Those people have been at war for the last 50 years. Kicking butt has done no good, negotiating has done no good.<br /><br />It is worth a try.
 

ErikDC

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Re: what's the reason for pullout of gaza

With all due respect, JB, it isn't going to work. Sharon is a fool.
 

kenimpzoom

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Re: what's the reason for pullout of gaza

Because it is the right thing to do. Israel won the war, but that doesnt give them the right to take over the place. The USA didnt take over Germany or Japan.<br /><br />Quite frankly both sides have done some really stupid things.<br /><br />Hopefully this will work.<br /><br />The funny thing is that both sides say God gave them the land. God was right, he gave it to both of them, to share and live in peace. Lets all pray that cooler heads will prevail, and one day they can share that land as god intended it.<br /><br />Ken
 

rolmops

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Re: what's the reason for pullout of gaza

I did part of my army service there and a lot of reserve duty.<br />It was in the early seventies that the lands that had been bought in 1916 and lost in the independence war of 1948 were resettled while Sharon was the militairy commander of the Gaza strip,which by the way is about 3 miles wide and 20 miles long.<br />This was possible because everybody believed that Israel with the six day war victory under its belt was invincible.The war of 1973 put an end to that idea.The settlers were encouraged by very attractive government loans and although many of the settlers did not neccesarily believe inthe "greater land of Israel" ideology,they did believe in living in nice big houses.Owning a home in a certain place very soon makes you very attached to that place and your political ideas are much influenced by this.The Gaza strip has always been a hotbed for terror.It is incredibly poor and overpopulated with a very corrupt leadership.<br />I remember patrolling the roads in there and being shot at from the orange groves and the children shooting balls from ballbearings with catapults.<br />To most of the Israeli public it has always been clear that the settlements were just not going to make it.In Netzarim the entire population of the settlement changed several times because people kept on leaving.I also remember patrolling in Neve Dekalim trying to enforce the curfew in the nearby town of Khan Yunis.While we were trying to enforce the curfew.The Neve Dekalim farmers would let Palestinians crawl under through the fences so they could pick tomatoes...<br />Sharon finally understands that he cannot keep on occupying a population as explosive as the one in Gaza.It is to much of an emotional and financial drain on Israel.You cannot keep a population under occupation forever.<br />It would be mistake to think that it was a peace offering to the palestinians.It is a step in the seperation process that is going on.<br />It is also an effort to regain world sympathy for the Israeli cause in the conflict and it will be used to redraw borders in the west bank.
 

Boomyal

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Re: what's the reason for pullout of gaza

Originally posted by KenImpZoom:<br /> The funny thing is that both sides say God gave them the land. God was right, he gave it to both of them, to share and live in peace. Lets all pray that cooler heads will prevail, and one day they can share that land as god intended it.<br /><br />Ken
I can see that you have not read your Bible lately KIZ. Not at all what the Good Book says.
 

lakelivin

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Re: what's the reason for pullout of gaza

I think pragmatism has as more to do with it than a random act of knidness. Correct me if I'm wrong anywhere, but I believe the following is a fairly acurate, abbreviated summary of the situation.<br /><br />GAZA STRIP<br />Area total: 360 sq km, slightly more than twice the size of Washington, DC <br /><br />Population: approximately 1.375 million Palestinians; somewhere in the neighborhood of 5,000 to 7,000 Israeli settlers in 21 Jewish settlements.<br /><br />USA helped mediate 1993 peace process agreement between Isreal & Palestinians which included Israeli pullout of Gaza.<br /><br />The current Bush administration also has an independent Palestinian State as part of it's outline for a middle east peace plan. <br /><br />Actual current pullout initiated by Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. Most Israelis support the pullout. <br /><br />As far as pragmatism goes, seems to make sense. Israel was spending billions of dollars a year protecting a relative handfull of settlers. And where and how (both physically and taking into account the opposition of the rest of the world, including the US) would Israel displace almost 1.4 million Palestinians from the Gaza Strip? <br /><br />No offense Erik, but saying that "the Palestinians (Muslims)have much of Africa, Southwest Asia and the equatorial islands of Indonesia, etc." is somewhat akin to saying that "the Dutch (Christians) already have most of Europe, the Americas, Australia, etc." It doesn't make sense to equate a nationality with a religion.<br /><br />And as far as making (keeping?) the Gaza Strip a formal part of Israel: Does anyone think the Israelis want (or could survive) with millions of Palestinians as Israeli citizens, with full rights and the ability to seek formal government representation? Or, alternatively, that the world would continue to tolerate another South Africa type apartheid, with two classes of people inhabiting a country, one of which has little or no rights compared to the other? That would be somewhat hypocritical to our 'Democracy Principle', no?<br /><br />Let's just hope that this thing isn't sabotaged by the Palestinian radicals. Or Israeli radicals, either, for that matter. Yeah, they have some as well, as demonstrated by the Jewish extremist who opened fire on a bus recently killing four Arabs. Or the Jewish law student who assasinated Yitzhak Rabin in 1995 in order to sabotage the peace process going on at that time. Or even the demonstrators who don't live there but still snuck into the settlements in order to undermine the Israeli Governments attempt to pull the settlers out of Gaza (which again, is supported by the majority of Israeli citizens).
 

Ralph 123

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Re: what's the reason for pullout of gaza

As far as pragmatism goes, seems to make sense. Israel was spending billions of dollars a year protecting a relative handfull of settlers. And where and how (both physically and taking into account the opposition of the rest of the world, including the US) would Israel displace almost 1.4 million Palestinians from the Gaza Strip?
Bingo!<br /><br />Plus, now they can wall it off. Same thing with the West Bank. And, if they start using it a a full fledged base for attacks, Israel will have the moral high ground to fully retaliate.<br /><br />
Or, alternatively, that the world would continue to tolerate another South Africa type apartheid, with two classes of people inhabiting a country, one of which has little or no rights compared to the other? That would be somewhat hypocritical to our 'Democracy Principle', no?
Actually, saw a really good documentary on HBO that showed most of the soldiers doing duty in the "occupied territories" are Arab Israeli citizens. They are the ones who blew away the camera man making the documentary. So, they are treated as equals it seems and are more anti-Palestinian than the Jews.
 

tomatolord

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Re: what's the reason for pullout of gaza

Well according to the UN if a country invades you and you then go on to win you can occuppy them until THEY sign a peace treaty with you. <br /><br />Germany signed a peace treaty so did japan. As far as I know Palestine has refused to sign a peace treaty.<br /><br />My guess is that this was always on the table but Arafat did not really want peace or to run a 3rd world country, which is what this will be.<br /><br />It will be much much easier for Israel to put a wall up and keep them out.
 

Vlad D Impeller

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Re: what's the reason for pullout of gaza

This is a very painful decision for Israel, according to international law all of the settlements in the occupied territories following the 1967 war are illegal, this is also recognised by the USA, but Israel has disputed this. The decision to pull out is a demographic one, What will be extremely excruciating is when the day arrives that Israel finds that it can no longer hold on to the West Bank. The Palestinian birth rate is phenominal, with the Israeli birth rate added to the influx of over a million new immigrants from Russia and various eastern european countries, Israel still came out with a net loss in comparison to the Palestinians.
 

ErikDC

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Re: what's the reason for pullout of gaza

I appreciate everyone's opinion and analysis of the insanely difficult dilemma regarding the Middle East situation. LakeLivin, with all due respect, I stand by my statement. It has become all too clear to me that Islam is doing all they can to destroy Jews and take over the state of Israel. They say it over and over and over again, I tend to take their word for it. If I were in charge, the Palestinians would be escorted out under force and at gunpoint. I will give no quarter on this subject. I predict more suicide bombings in Israel before the year is out.
 

Vlad D Impeller

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Re: what's the reason for pullout of gaza

Originally posted by ErikDC:<br /> I appreciate everyone's opinion and analysis of the insanely difficult dilemma regarding the Middle East situation. LakeLivin, with all due respect, I stand by my statement. It has become all too clear to me that Islam is doing all they can to destroy Jews and take over the state of Israel. They say it over and over and over again, I tend to take their word for it. If I were in charge, the Palestinians would be escorted out under force and at gun point. I will give no quarter on this subject. I predict more suicide bombings in Israel before the year is out.
Where would you escort them out to? :confused: <br /><br />There are no guarantees that there will be no more suicide bombings from the extremists among the Palestinians or no more spraying of machine gun bullets into mosques and buses by Israeli extremists. The withdrawl from Gaza is dictated by demography and the move by Israel in unilateral.
 

ErikDC

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Re: what's the reason for pullout of gaza

Vlad, I would escort them to Syria, Egypt, Jordan, whoever. Oh wait, those countries kicked them out because of their extremism. Should Israel be expected to tolerate them, much less give land to them? No offense but I could care less if the Palestinians were put on a ship and sunk. F' em, they're trained to blow up innocent non-Muslim people from birth, I have no sympathy.
 

tommays

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Re: what's the reason for pullout of gaza

anybody who has spent anytime there in the non tourist areas will quickely realize the Silent Majority of ALL THE GROUPES is more than able to live together<br /><br />you are letting the the one percenters speak for everybody<br /><br /><br />tommays
 
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