yamaha 115 four stoke

khwannam

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Jul 12, 2004
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4
Anyone had any problems with the Yamaha 115 four stroke? I have run 2 stroke Mercs, Johnsons,and Yamahas and have been partial to Yammies. I went in to re power a Hewes flats boat and the dealer suggested a 115 or 140 Suzuki over the Yamaha. He sells both but says he has had many warranty claims with the Yamaha 115 four stroke. I would appreciate comments.
 

JB

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Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: yamaha 115 four stoke

It's a good engine, but so is the Suzuki.<br /><br />There have been a few problems with fuel in the oil during/after break in. That is a FEW, mind you.<br /><br />I don't think there is a nickles worth of difference between them.
 

rodbolt

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Re: yamaha 115 four stoke

I am with JB<br /> most problems I encounter are due to a loose nut behind the helm or low operator pressure.<br /> good luck and keep posting
 

TUCKER1

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Apr 14, 2004
Messages
51
Re: yamaha 115 four stoke

115 FOUR STROKE EFI regardless if it is a Yamaha or Mercury. Do yourself a favor it will take 2 minutes crack the engine oil drain plug to its last thread (so the oil drips out very slowly) what do you see?? Hopefully nothing<br />but pure oil. I am betting you will see milky oil approx 6 - 12 oz. Condensation I think Not !! Common denominator between Yamaha and Mercury = same powerhead = design problems. But merc says that a cupful of water or more in the crankcase is within acceptable parameters.....
 

Keithw

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Mar 17, 2004
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Re: yamaha 115 four stoke

Will this milky oil show up on the dipstick.<br /><br />Surely if Yamaha don't think it is a problem then what is the issue.
 

rodbolt

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Re: yamaha 115 four stoke

I qam thinking tucker is swilling.<br /> I will bet I have changed the oil on more 115 yammi's than tucker has ever seen and I have yet to see the probl;ems he describes. its a decent motor with a decent warrenty.<br /> no worries<br /> good luck and keep posting<br />ps if you had 10 ounces of "pure" water in the base you would have 5 quarts of milk
 

Greengilz

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Re: yamaha 115 four stoke

Rodbolt, - I must be a swiller as well - I wish my problems were just a bad dream but they are not:<br /><br />Both our motors gradually slowed to 3500 rpm. Turned out to be fuel blockage in the filters before the injector pump and in the injectors (dirty fuel). I didn't have a Racor prefilter fitted but kept the filter/water on the motors clean. Microscopic inspection showed particals as large as 100 micron blocking the injectors. EFI fuel injecton specilists I have been dealing with say EFI cars have pressure filter down to 5 micron just before the injector rail. Honda outboards appear to have an appropriate pressure filters but Yamaha don't seem to have learnt yet. We had our filters replaced, fuel system & injectors cleaned, and 2 micron Racor prefilters fitted. 200 hours later my motors were wore out with water & fuel in the engine oil. Turns out some particals left over afer the cleaning got into the injector(s)and then injectors leaked fuel into the cylinders and crankcase every time the motor was turned off. Remember it only takes 1 particle of dirt to do this. As the majority of my motor hours are trolling and I swap over motors frequently the fuel diluted the oil very rapidly over a 24 hour non-stop trip. The other issue which contributed to the motor wearing out was inadequate oil cook-off from all the slow speed trolling and emersion of the oil pan. The oil does not get hot enough to cook-off the normal combustion volatiles (including water). The water adds corrosion errosion wear to reduced oil viscosity wear. The motors also have blind cavities under the block which capture and hold the water vapour which turns to sludge. <br />I think my problems were caused by fuel filtration not suitable for the purpose intended and outboard not suitable for purpose intended.<br />No help from Yamaha in this part of the world so I will buy Honda next time. <br /><br />Tell me how to post a picture on here and I will show you the proof.
 

TUCKER1

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Messages
51
Re: yamaha 115 four stoke

Greengilz having a engineering degree also(EE).Us swillers must not know a hill of beans when it comes to a complicated 4 stroke EFI engine. Mercury has put about $1,500 into my 115 efi 4 stroke. It has cleaned up some but not enough for my satisfaction. I have enough documentation and pictures that would satisfy any court. I am starting litigation on my engine. A cupful of condensation or 3 oz of condensation is not within my acceptable parameters.
 

TUCKER1

Seaman
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Apr 14, 2004
Messages
51
Re: yamaha 115 four stoke

But, then again Rodbolt is a "Marine Technician" and has changed the oil on more 115 yammi's than I will ever see. If so why are they settling with me out of court. I think he should fully understand the design of the engine before he starts spouting off....
 
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DJ

Guest
Re: yamaha 115 four stoke

Start of litigation to settlement in one day. Wow!!!<br /><br />Something doesn't smell right.<br /><br />There is not a fourstroke marine engine out there (inboards-I/O's included), excluding those with closed cooling systems, that doesn't have water in the crankcase.<br /><br />Last time I checked, water boils at 212 degrees F. No rawwater cooled marine engine, excluding closed systems, engine crankcase reaches that temp. So, you get condensation.<br /><br />But, courts decide on emotion, not fact.<br /><br />I wish you well. :)
 

rodbolt

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Re: yamaha 115 four stoke

cause whatever technician your dealing with wont pull off the readouts and show how many hours are in the operating range.<br /> if you have water in the oil it will turn to an emulsified milk. if its condenation you can pull the valve cover and see the milky goop on the cover. its a common problem with IHRA and NHRA race motors due to not enough run time at RPM's. combined with tall mostly aluminium valve covers it tends to condensate more. the only customers I deal with with making oil or milky oil spend to much time below the operating range. Honda,merc yam and tohatsu have all fought this problem and 90% comes down to the consumer not following the breakin procedure or not keeping the RPM in the operating range. the early suzuki 4 strokes had some overcooling problems and sometimes that is a factor.the motors were not designed to idle and go 3000 rpm all day. it will require a modification of the scheduled maint. just like the average and severe duty cycles of auto,and industrial equipment. if you put dirty fuel in the tank it will die<br /> I dont care if you have a .001 micron filter, eventually the filter will become a restriction and cause a motor failure. I am not an anganeer but I have to fix their fu**ups on a daily basis.I have done this about 30 years now and have seen a lot here and there. yes they do make design flaws but I have 115 EFI engines all over with more than 4000 hours. I have seen some head and cover gasket leaks as well as some shaft seal leaks that allow water intrusion but none that I could not find.some times the labor comes from my pocket but if you just replace a failure it will fail again. the cause MUST be found or it will do it again. if its a mechanical problem I can fix it. sometimes I have to ride with the customer to see what he is doing and just observe how the machine is operated.I agree that the filtration systems on all outboards could be improved but is it a manufacturing design flaw or a customer that knows fuel quality in his/her area is poor? that is why I tell some of the customers I deal with in Venezuala to stay far away from DFI and EFI if possible due to fuel quality issues. but so far the 4 strokes seem to work. I had a pair of 225's come in with a oil alarm complaint<br /> I put 4 qts in each engine and the problem was solved. I think the crankcase breathing setup sucks on the motors cause of all the standing oil in the throttle bores and airbox but I did not desighn it some over educated anganeer with no practicle experience did. maybe you could desighn a crankcase breather system to aid in oil consumption that will make the EPA happy. but I will stand by if you have that much water you will have milk. unless you dont check your oil level after each days use. this is not a car motor at all. buy a honda then tell them thier product sucks because of improper fuel and they will laugh as well. fuel quality is not a warrenty issue at all.<br /> I rebuilt a 9.9 jonnyrude a few years back then took the customer on a boat ride. he brought it back 14 months later with a burned piston. he was still running the original 3 gallons of 25 to 1 that I test ran it with. the carb was stopped solid. I asked him about it and he said well I got busy and never used it then when we did we had to keep the choke out to run but we ran it anyway. I did not warrenty anything and he took me to court. I got my attorneys fees out of him. it was not my fault it was his negligence.<br /> good luck and keeep posting
 
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DJ

Guest
Re: yamaha 115 four stoke

rodbolt,<br /><br />I'm glad you won the 9.9 case. You were right. You got justice. Rare.<br /><br />Dealers do not always do the right thing, neither do manufacturers. Dealers can try to fix a problem that does not exist and create unrealistic expectations. Manufacturers can ignore a problem whether it be due to a poor decision or ignorance of an issue. That ignorance happens more than one would think.<br /><br />In either case, the owner tends to believe neither.
 

Ray Neudecker

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May 25, 2004
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1,656
Re: yamaha 115 four stoke

Glad you won the 9.9 case. Justice does still happen sometimes. Manufacters do make mistakes that show up in the real world. Many other problems are the result of customer abuse and expectaions that the same non maintence they have been lulled in to on their vehicles that are used constantly applies to outboards that aren't. They certainly don't idle around in them around here or some one will run over them. Most mechanical items will deteriate faster when not used or maintained. I built a motor for a man who had waited two years to replace the one he had blown. He pumped the gas out of the tank through a filter and put it back in to use. It had been sitting with no Sta bil for two years. He promptly detonated the motor and still is not sure that didn't create the problem. I had warned him to get rid of that fuel before he did it. Most of the manufactors problems are that the engines are used in manners they never expected when designing and testing. Others don't show up until after extended use. Their feedback through warranty may not always be accurate as to the real problem and cause. Service reps turn over almost as fast as the sales reps. It can take some time before the word reaches managment or engineering.
 

rodbolt

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Sep 1, 2003
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Re: yamaha 115 four stoke

DJ<br /> your absolutly right. I know of many dealers that I wont work for anymore and one or two I quit the first day. I have to live here and have done so for a while. the property I live on has been in the family since 1885. I guess I am a local. to many dealers just shove stuff out the door or make things up. I have found for the most part all the service rep is good for is to back up a warrenty claim. most know less about the product than I do.<br /> RAY<br /> I gotta agree with you as well. I remember back in the day when cars had non-closed fuel systems and down draft tubes and carbs with manifold heaters. now with modern auto technology its a turn the key and run thing and to many people expect a boat motor from the lowly 2hp to the 300hp to be the same. half the customers I deal with cannot get the hang of warm up lever and choke. that is why motor manufactures had to try to make them turn key starting and that in itself caused the potential for problems. as for the 115 yammi EFI it cycles the injectors at shut down and dumps the pressre on the rails like the 225. so it wont leak but so much. I know that sometimes manufacting has problems but its to often compounded by dealerships that cant afford the time for thorough testing and traing of techs.<br /> glad to see I am not the only one that has customers trying to reuse old gas:) :) . you can always tell by the black laquer paint look on the piston skirt.<br /> good luck and keep posting
 

Mazanek

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Jun 16, 2002
Messages
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Re: yamaha 115 four stoke

I have twin 2000 Yamaha F115's. They have not been without problems. Current total hours is about 500. I broke them in according to the manual instructions. First oil change by a dealer's service at 10 hours. Did a second oil change at about 50 hours only because I'm a maintenance nut. Third oil change at 100 and the port engine oil looked dull tan. Starboard was crystaline. Told the dealer I thought I had moisture in the crankcase so he told me to haul the boat to him (80 miles). Checked it out and they consulted Yamaha who said there is "no way" you can have water in the crankcase. $450 later, I left there thinking I was crazy. That was November at end of first season. The next year, 5 running hours later I look at the oil on the dip stick and its tipped with foam and looking tan. I called a different dealer who followed Yamaha's instruction and changed thermostat (condensation) not evaporating and told me its not seawater. To this dealer's service dept credit they knew something was wrong but all they could do is what Yamaha authorized under warranty. All factory reccomended tests showed no problems. All the while I'm using the boat because they said it was no problem. I'm changing oil less than ten hours, and in frequent contact with the a local dealer service. Then the dealer told me Yamaha told them they think they know the water source and parts are on order . They said use they engine until the parts come in and I can get in the schedule. <br /> I decided I was going to limit my use as I did all year until this was sorted out. (This problem started November 2000 and after the winter lay off boat went into use in May 2001, after which I imediately saw the problem again and its now August and I can't confidently use the engine.) Anyway pulled the dipstick after a days use that put about 3 hours on the motor and foam just poured out of the dipstick hole. I ran my new motor with a ton of seawater in the crankcase. Called the dealer and he said bring it right in. A week later, got it back repaired and was told water leaked around an oil pump gasket. I Flushed the crankcase with new oil three times before I used it and haven't seen anymore water since. <br />The issue is not with the second autorized Yamaha service dept, in fact they dogged this problem until Yamaha finally came up with something. I just spent 2000 last year to extend the warranty for another 3 years on the motors which I probably would not have done if I didn't have the problem. I asked the dealer (the one who's service dept finally fixed the problem) to tell Yamaha to extend the warranty for three years on the motor I had the water in and I'd buy the warranty extension on the other motor.
 

Mazanek

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Re: yamaha 115 four stoke

Part 2 as I logged first part of my story before I was done.<br />Anyway, Yamaha would not consider that idea at all which seemed reasonable to me. So I paid the full $2000 for the 2 warranty extensions. Now I have power loss on the the other motor and reading the above stories about fuel leaking into crankcases, I'm starting to freak.<br />If anyone owns a Yamaha four stroke and they see water in the oil, it may just look dull and tan and there may be a little white foam on the dipstick. It isn't condensation. Cooling water is getting in there.<br />Please don't anyone tell me I don't care of my engines and its the owner's fault.
 

rodbolt

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Re: yamaha 115 four stoke

mazanek<br /> yours is not the first oil pan gasket leak I have heard of, you have a beef with the oil system. I dont like the filter syatem for the fuel. the VST high pressure pump has a filter that likes to clog. you need to test the basics then check the fuel pressure on the EFI rail. then get the test wheel and run the engine until the problem occurs. then using a KV tester chect the plug firing voltage, if all the plugs are fireing then unplug the injectors one at a time until you find the noe that is bad. however we have more problems with the small screen filter on the bottom of the high pressure pump. if it is not cleaned every hundred hours or so it tends to clog. its a fuel quality issue. marine fuel systems are open to the atmosphre. nothing I can do about it. it tends to cause gasoline to go bad rapidly and the particulate matter settles out. if you dont have one get a fuel water seperator before the engine. one day marine applications will have closed fuel systems. until then use quality fuels and good prefilters. that is why all diesels have primary and secondary filters. some even use fuel coelesers. yamaha cannot desighn around all fuel issues. however I think some extra could be done with the sealing properties of the crankcase to head and the oil pan.<br /> but think about the injector leak theory a bit. if you were dumping so much raw fuel that it can run past the rings dont you think it would idle like crap> I did not see any idle issues in your post.that is why a thrurough testing of all the subsystems is in order. so far techs are having difficulty switching to 4 stroke trouble shooting technology. I know some that have never used a leakdown tester. a compression test on your motor,to me, is like a *** on a boar hog, but with careful testing and proper test procedures its a fairly simple system.<br /> good luck ande keep posting
 

Mazanek

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Re: yamaha 115 four stoke

RODBOLT,<br /> Thanks for the info on my "other" engine. I guess what you're saying is that since the motor runs OK at idle and lower RPM and starts to dog when fuel demand increases may not be an injector issue but a filter fouled. The only fuel filter I see is the one next to the pump. That's not "the small screen filter" that you refer to. Is there another?<br /> I'm ordering prefilters / separators today. <br />Thanks again.
 

rodbolt

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Sep 1, 2003
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20,066
Re: yamaha 115 four stoke

the high pressure pump is in the vapor seperator and the filter is on the bottom of it. I have to remove the intake manifold to access it on the 115. maybe someone else has another trick. the filter is about 90 dollars but its cheaper than the 180 dollar filter on the medium pressure line on an HPDI which also has a 90 doller filter in the tank as well as a 26 dollar filter on the block<br /> good luck and keep posting
 

Greengilz

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May 18, 2004
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Re: yamaha 115 four stoke

Khwannan,<br />Here is a list of some of the chat rooms you should visit to form your own opinion about Yamaha F115. I carn't comment for other brands but suggest you investigate Honda as they now have 5 year standard warranty and a two themostat cooling system (split temperature). I suspect the split temperature cooling system is to try to overcome the oil cook off issues in 4 strokes. <br /><br /> http://www.fishingworld.com/DiscussionBoards/Topic.php?PostID=0000008469 <br /> http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=30;t=003494 <br /> http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=30;t=003628 <br /> http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=30;t=004134 <br /> http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=30;t=003461#000006 <br /> http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=30;t=001021#000003 <br /> http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=30;t=001771#000003 <br /> http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=30;t=002640#000002 <br /> http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=30;t=002794#000001 <br /> http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=30;t=004148 <br /> http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=30;t=001221#000000 <br /> http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=146415 <br /> http://thehulltruth.net/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=9333&start=1 <br /> http://thehulltruth.net/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=17930&start=1 <br /> http://thehulltruth.net/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=19269&start=1 <br /> http://thehulltruth.net/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=27956&posts=12 <br /> http://thehulltruth.net/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=19269&start=1 <br /> http://www.yamahaoutboardparts.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000159 <br /> http://www.yamahaoutboardparts.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000171#000002 <br /> http://www.amsoil.com/articlespr/article_2002_outboard_motors.htm
 
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