Zodiac 310s refurb with pics

[sqrlnts]

Couple quick questions about regluing the floor to my tubes.

1. Once everything is cleaned up and both glue coats are properly applied do I only have one shot to align the floor to the tubes? IOW, will I be able to correct if I am off a bit, before the glue sets?

2. How much coverage will I get out of a 250ml 2 part Poly Marine PVC glue kit? My calculations only say around 10' x 3" (two coats) but that could be way off.

Here are pictures of the boat refurb. Thanks and I will post new pictures as I grab them.

Off to sniff MEK and scrub old glue!!!!

 

[sqrlnts]

Re: Zodiac 310s refurb with pics

hmmmm 11 views and no comments?? Don't be scared, your not gonna hurt my feelings, hahaha, hell at least say Hello!!!!

Just uploaded 16 boring pics of the cleaning progress. In case you just want to see where I am at I have attached a pic of the floor seam before I started and then 4hrs and 12 beers later. Damn, can't wait to get this thing on the water!!!!!

Just finished 4 grueling hours of removing old glue. This stuff is tuff. First layer was removed with a combination of MEK and flapper wheel. Second round consisted of a 1" square "soft" wire brush and MEK. Third round was a wire tooth brush to clean deep inside the floor seam. Fourth round was Scotch Brite pads and MEK.

I would say I am almost happy with the results. I still plan on another round of scotch brite and you guessed it MEK. Just sucks that the temps are 110 right now, can only work at night and early morning. Toughest part is trying to wrangle the boat into position to get a good scrub on, lucky I have a unused pool table for a makeshift work table!

Am still trying to figure out coverage for the overpriced 2 part Polymarine, even sent an email directly to the company, no reply yet.

 

[nobrainsd]

Re: Zodiac 310s refurb with pics

Looks like you are well on your way to regluing your floor. Having it come loose over time is not unusual. You should be sure to give a pull on the material where it is glued to the transom. Shortly after my floor seams were repaired I had water seeping in at the transom. Any glued seam that would come apart without damaging the material got pulled. That can be discouraging, but when properly glued the seams will hold up very well. I assume you have checked out the REAL glue instructions? Here is a link to what is truly required to get a strong bond. http://www.shipstore.com/SS/HTML/INFO/INFOGLUE.html
The humidity is critical to bond strength. I bought a cheap hygrometer. Don't go by whats in the newspaper. High heat is not good either. After all the prep work you certainly don't want a weak bond. I don't consider any solvent other than MEK as an option for the bonding process. You are absolutely right, this is a one shot deal. Don't pull apart the glued surfaces unless you intend to clean off the glue and re do the job. You are going to have to glue the floor on when the tubes are inflated to get the positioning and tension correct. Personally, I would consider doing the floor in manageable sections. The chances of hitting the seam correctly all the way around in one shot are slim. You may find it necessary to clamp and pull on the floor material or tie off and stretch the boat a bit to get the whole thing to lay out properly. When you are ready to glue a section it must lay down into position easily and correctly. If you have to manipulate it into position it won't work. I glued the outer flooring strip first and then the inner strip. It is virtually impossible to glue them both at the same time and get the seam closed in. Just a few suggestions. You might check out this thread.
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=266962&highlight=nobrainsd
There are some extraneous posts, but if scroll down you will find some interesting pics and repair posts.

 

[sqrlnts]

Re: Zodiac 310s refurb with pics

nobrainsd,
I had a feelling you would be joining the thread based on another that I read. Thanks. I have read almost every thread Google can find on Zodiac repairs, but still have questions. Probably common till you have done this a couple times.

I didn't think to glue the seam in two parts as you said. Should I locate the floor with tubes inflated and mark it with a sharpie, then mask out the glue area on the tubes? Thats about the only way I can think to do it cleanly in two steps to really get that good bond going on.

Do you think the Polymarine 250ml will be enough to do the entire floor? I don't think its gonna cut it, but I just don't know. Def don't want to buy more than I will need. Thanks in advance.

 

[nobrainsd]

Re: Zodiac 310s refurb with pics

It would have been good if you could have marked the original glue line or if you can still discern where that was by examining the tube. But either way you will want to figure out exactly where you want the bond to be and taping it off is a good idea. It is easy to see where your bond should be and it keeps your glue from getting all over. I inherited some glued seams and the previous owner was really messyand it looks terrible, but it is cosmetic. Try not to get MEK all over the place either. The PVC fabric will harden up again, but it isn't something you want to do uneccesarily. Having the whole floor loose and only attached at the transom is going to be problematic. It seems to me that it will be very difficult to pull the floor forward and place it correctly. You don't want tension on your bond while it is curing either. The glued sections need to lay into place and stay without pulling or stresses until cured. It seems to me that you might want to glue a small section of the bow with the tubes deflated or partially deflated. That way (after 72 hours) you could inflate the tubes and stretch out the floor then glue the side sections. Starting at the rear doesn't seem like a likely plan of action. The trick for you will be to figure out just how far you need to go forward for your glue line, if you have obliterated all signs of the original attachment point this will be difficult. Even after all of this you may find that you have a little too much fabric or a pucker as you work aft to the transom. I had to stretch my partially inflated boat by tying it to two vehicles to get a small pucker out of the floor at the rear. Shoot for a smooth band of glued seam all the way around and ignore any other small variations in the placement. That seal is essential for watertightness. I glued everything in stages. I would not even try to glue the inner and outer floor flap at the same time! I did not break cans up into more than two batches. Accurate mixing percentages is big! Splitting the can up into really small portions is a recipe for disaster. Thats why I preferred buying smaller cans of StaBond from NRS. Poly Marine worked well, but it was expensive, only came in bigger cans and I wasted more of the glue when I couldn't use all of a batch up. My floor didn't come off all at once and I didn't pull off everything I needed to glue until I got some well bonded sections in place. Getting everything set and working out your placement will be crucial. Good luck! Take pictures!

 

[sqrlnts]

Re: Zodiac 310s refurb with pics

nobrainsd,
good points. I stilll have a faint old glue line to line up the floor, so I am going to use that for alignment. My biggest concern right now is getting the seam clean enough. I am using MEK and scotch brite pads which seem to be doing the job. Do you think its getting close to clean enough?? I will still do some more heavy wipes with MEK and clothes to prep the area but I think the majority of the previous glue is gone. I think the scotch brite pads are loading up with mostly PVC, not glue.

Let me know what you think!!!

Secondly, I am looking at the MK III speed tubes. How hard do you think it would be to add a set of these to my Cadet?? I know crazy idea, BUT, if it would foil up and add some speed.......why not try!!!! One problem might be that they would make the prop ride higher in the water???

Can't wait till this is me and my girl!!!!! Minus the dudes that is.....

 

[sqrlnts]

Re: Zodiac 310s refurb with pics

Now that I have posted the pics up and can see them, I still see areas that are not clean enough. Never mind the clean enough question, will elbow grease those out. Speed tubes??? Hahahaha

 

[sqrlnts]

Re: Zodiac 310s refurb with pics

too many pics for one post. Another question, will the floor be slick when wet? Seems like it could be, if so what should I coat it with?

Also found a couple of previous patches I want to replace, where can I find PVC material to do the job. I know the local Marine West don't carry it.....

Thanks again for all the help!!!!!!

 

[nobrainsd]

Re: Zodiac 310s refurb with pics

It's great that you can seethe previous glue line. I wouldn't hold that as an absolute mark to glue to. In the end a floor with a little less tension and a good glued seal is better than a tight floor with a less solid bond all the way around. Like I said before the most important point is to have any glued surfaces lay together without tension or stress. The initial bond isn't all that strong and any pulling or separation will trash it. I wouldn't be using MEK all that much during clean up. It really softens the PVC, even more than the glue and it makes it easy to remove some of the PVC coating on the fabric. I always clean my glue off dry and do a final scrub with acetone (it doesn't soften the PVC as much as MEK and it flashes off faster). Great for a final cleaning that really gets an wax, oils or other residue off. My boat had bad glue repairs with thick layers from a botched job. This made it harder to get them clean. But even where there wasn't that type of repair I used a small abrasive wheel from Dremel like you see in the pic below. Using a smaller and not so abrasive wheel made it easier to control. Unlike hypalon you don't really have to abrade the PVC material surface to glue, but I would run the wheel over the surface to just take a little bit of the shine off. Not required, but it does make sure you have a thoroughly clean surface. On small repairs with poor access for a wheel I used a little sandpaper on a stick. I wasn't trying to remove material, just lightly burnish the topcoat so it has a dull look. Some other poster may point out that this is overkill, but my glue jobs are holding up to a lot of abuse and glue does not stick to glue.

I have included two sources for PVC material, West Marine usually sells PVC patches in a little kit with a tube of one part glue (the one part glue is not good for anything but an emergency repair). As far as the old patches go, I would pull on the edge. If it won't come off fairly easily you should leave it alone until it starts to come off on it's own. I have pulled all of my seams and patches that will come off. If you have to pull hard enough and it starts to damage the PVC coating by pulling it off one side or the other then you are pulling too hard. Heat will help loosen up firm glue that you really want to remove. Care should be taken if using a heat gun so you don't dmage other parts of the boat. Using some sort of shield around the area being addresssed is wise. I personally do not remove anything that won't come apart being pulled on, though I do use pliers to grab the material.

Yes, the floor boards can get slick. The reflective paint on the boards isn't as bad as my aluminum floor. I don't worry about it. I have seen boats with textured floor surfaces, but it isn't something I'm looking to do. You might try and post on that issue directly to get a few more responses.

I imagine the speed tubes do raise your top speed, but all inflatables end up with rapidly increasing drag at higher speeds. My boat does 30mph with a 40hp and a MK2 Futura I see out with a 50hp doesn't look to be pulling away from me. The tubes do make the boat handle a lot better than the regular SIB's I have run before. I have seen speed tubes for sale occasionally on Craigslist, but that is a rare find. I don't know that they would be worth the effort and expense unless you happen to find them cheap.

Remember that UV is hard on the fabric in general, but it is heat that works your glued seams. I avoid storing my boat outside for that reason. Good luck with your repairs and feel free to ask any questions you might have. If you haven't actually glued anything yet may I suggest you start on a small section or patch? It really does help to get a feel for working with the glue, the need for the glued area to be easily positioned and the requirement that the glued piece be allowed to cure before it's stressed. Have fun and good luck with the babes!

http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product_list.asp?deptid=978
http://www.riverconnection.com/inflatable-repair-fabrics-c-17_36.html

 

[sqrlnts]

Re: Zodiac 310s refurb with pics

Just putting a link in here for future reference on possible seat ideas

Also homebuilt raft frame

Also found PVC material at NRS on the cheap!!! I am thinking about reinforcing the entire outer floor seam with a 4" strip. It would be some cheap, easy insurance??

 

[sqrlnts]

Re: Zodiac 310s refurb with pics

Alright! Ready for glue, well almost. Its still too hot to try gluing the boat outside, so it must be moved indoors. Finally figured out how much glue I will need 2 1/2 pints total. This includes an additional 3" wide reinforcing strip I will be adding once the floor is glued on. I still need to mark and mask off for the first glue seam. Might do that tomorrow night. Need to get a trash can so I can fire up the 15 horse Johnson, maybe this weekend. Cheers!!

 

[Ducati John]

Re: Zodiac 310s refurb with pics

I just started a rehab of a Z131 Zodiac. Thanks to you guys I'm moving ahead with the project. I have two questions.

1. I know sqrints asked this, but where would you buy strips of PVC fabric? I want to use it for the same purpose, overlap it to help hold down the floor seams, in particular for the front and highly exposed glued floor. To me, this area is critical because it gets hammered constantly and I thought it would really help strengthen the front floor seams.

2. I have only 4 of the 5 floor boards, I do have all the slats including the two aluminum side support slates. I noticed the picture of the floor pieces and wondered if that is the correct configuration? If it is why are two of them with the slates pointing right side up? What are those two floorboards with runners used for?

thanks

 

[nobrainsd]

Re: Zodiac 310s refurb with pics

It is not unusual for the handglued seams to fail on older PVC boats. I didn't remove my entire floor when I repaired it. I did pull apart any seam section that would separate without damaging the PVC coating. Whether performing the repairs is worth it depends on you. Many find a new boat isn't that big of an expense compared to the time to do the job right. But it isn't all that hard if you watch your humidity, the temp, do the proper prep and allow for a full cure. A reinforcing strip isn't necessary if you get a good bond. It is the failure of the glue over time that is the issue rather than a need for reinforcement. Strips of PVC Seam Bias are available at the riverconnection.com They are only short sections, but you cant bend the material anyways, so a continuos reinforcement would only be possible if you cut out a shaped strip from a really large sheet of PVC. Personally, I don't see the value in a reinforcement. Do the reglue correctly and it will be fine. If the tubes themselves (with their thermo bonded seams) are a problem then I would be hesitant to do a lot of work on the boat. I can deal with a floor leaking, but tube deflation could be bad (particularly when in remote locations). If you haven't spotted the following instructions posted here before you might want to check this link out,http://www.shipstore.com/SS/HTML/INFO/INFOGLUE.html . Don't mess around, follow all of the instructions, particularly regarding environmental specs.