Trailerable cover: Top Gun vs Sunbrella?

[Expidia]

Went to the Lund dealer. They want about $550 for the OEM Lund cover.

Went to the canvas shop who made up my enclosure for me . . .

Shop wants $475 plus extra for the supports.

The owner suggested I don't use Sunbrella because he said Sunbrella stretches too much when trailering.

He said what he wants to use is Top Gun fabric. He said it's a much better fabric for trailering.

He also said not to get burgundy as it will fade faster than gray will.

Thought I'd check back here first before I let him do one up for me since I don't want to go with his recommendations if he's just trying to dump old stock on me and he makes more off the Top Gun material than Sunbrella and is he steering me to the gray since he may have rolls of it in stock and he might make more than if he had to order the Sunbrella fabric.

So what's the verdict? Is Top Gun better for trailering than Sunbrella and if I went with Sunbrella would I be OK from fading as Sunbrella is supposedly a higher end fabric?

He sounds knowledgeable and honest. He did do a great job on my enclosure, but this is only the second time I'm dealing with him, so I'd like other opinions.

Thx

 

[rndn]

Re: Trailerable cover: Top Gun vs Sunbrella?

I've used Sunbrella without issues although it does stretch a little. I agree that any deep color will fade faster. A lighter color will also keep the temperature down in the boat while it is covered and in direct sunlight.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Trailerable cover: Top Gun vs Sunbrella?

Top Gun is cheaper than Sunbrella but is also a little harder to work with...that is his issue though. Both are good but I always use Sunbrella myself. I make my own boat covers.

If you are talking about a cover that goes over the sides and ties down, not sure if any stretch would be a concern since you are taking up any slack with the tie downs.

 

[dodgeramsst2003]

Re: Trailerable cover: Top Gun vs Sunbrella?

I also make my own covers, as well as some for friends and family etc. I've used sunbrella before, but then switched and tried the top gun. I love the top gun material. The top gun is more abrasion resistant than the sunbrella, and the finish on it looks better in my opinion. It is true the top gun is cheaper, so make sure he doesn't charge you the same amount as for a sunbrella cover. I didn't find the top gun any harder to work with, and on the contrary, you don't need a hot knife to cut it as it doesn't unravel like the sunbrella does. In the end its your call, both materials will give you a great cover, its just everyone has their own opinions.

Chris

 

[Expidia]

Re: Trailerable cover: Top Gun vs Sunbrella?

Ya, that's the thing. He already gave me a price and I'd be paying the same for Top Gun as Sunbrella but I was sure he was going to pocket more on the Top Gun.

I figure he must have a big roll of the Top Gun and tends to push it over Sunbrella.

I think I'll try another shop for a 2nd estimate. I think there are no tiedown straps because the Lund system has what's called a "Sport Track" all around the gunnels where the cover clips down along the outside of the rail. This uses a lot less material since it only clips over the edge.

He might be right about stretching, since if the Sunbrella does stretch, it's going to start lufting around and with no tie downs there is no way to take up the slack.

I think I'll call Lund and see what their fabric is for OEM trailerable cover and also get that 2nd quote from another shop.

Thx for all of these quick comebacks on my question

 

[Expidia]

Re: Trailerable cover: Top Gun vs Sunbrella?

After talking with Lund today I think it's what I suspected with this canvas shop. I had to use them for the enclosure, but for the trailerable cover I might as well go with the OEM Lund cover. Comes in gray or tan. Boats gray anyway, so gray works for me.

Lund said they use Sunbrella and they don't have an issue with stretching. They said one can move the clips to take up any slack if need be.

They said theirs is a custom fit it and also includes two support poles.

Lund dealers drop ship this item anyway, so I'll call around to a few dealers until I find one that will give me a little discount. Why not, they are not doing anything other than filing an order with Lund.

I just don't want to pay Lund's inflated list prices.

 

[dodgeramsst2003]

Re: Trailerable cover: Top Gun vs Sunbrella?

When I have someone ask me for a cover, I steer them towards top gun, only because I like the product better. I usually sell them with the cheaper part. I charge the same labor, whether its top gun or sunbrella, and the only thing that changes is the material price. Have you had a chance to see or feel top gun? It just looks a lot better to me, and I use it on my own boats now. go back to your canvas guy and tell him you know he quoted you a price for sunbrella, and that top gun is cheaper, so ask him to adjust the price. If he tells you same price, then walk. Just remember, in most canvas work, the material is the smallest part of the price. You are paying for the workmanship and expertise in making the canvas.

 

[Expidia]

Re: Trailerable cover: Top Gun vs Sunbrella?

Thx for your response.
You know I try and buy everything new so I don't have to deal with aggravation . . . but, sometimes it blows up on me anyway . . . that's life

My problem with this guy is he does nice work, but I asked him for a bag to keep the enclosure in that he made for me last season back in August. Told him I wanted it to match the Sunbrella Bimini and the enclosure he made for me. His helper measured it out and I had to call him 3 times over the winter, no bag yet with each call. Finally I called last week and he said it's ready! but he said he lost the measurements and my phone #.

When I went to pick it up and put the enclosure in it, I found it to be a foot wider, so it has extra floppy empty material and worse yet "not Sunbrella". It's burgundy, but with blue threads through it. I paid him $60 plus tax. I figured I'd at least take it home and see how far off the color was because I could always take it back and have him shorten it to the correct width. He said this material will give me better wear (ya, right)

This is why I think this guy is trying to use up material on hand because when I asked him about the trailerable cover he still quoted me the price that he quoted me last year with Sunbrella.

I have not had a chance to match this bag up to fitting the area that I store it in without the extra material. I keep it on the back cushion. It's still on the back seat of my car and I have to uncover the boat. I figured if I was going to have him make up a trailerable cover for me I didn't want to tick him off just yet, that I was going to be returning this wrong color, wrong width and wrong material bag to him.

He's also 10 miles West of me and all this back and forth is annoying to boot.

Lund doesn't make an enclosure for my size boat, so I had him make one up for me. But now that I know the OEM cover is Sunbrella (and available in gray for less fading), there is no point to me using him now for more than Lund charges.

They will drop ship it to my door and I won't have to go back to his place again other than the 2 trips (really 4 counting back and forth) now that he's getting his bag back to do over correctly.

I'll make a few calls to some Lund places and buy it from the first dealer that will give me a discount off the retail price.

Scary part for me is I'm in the market for a 2nd boat which will be 2 or 3 years old. A 22 footer. So I'll probably need to do much of this same accessorizing cr*p all over again because I might not be selling this Lund rig, when I find the other boat. I might keep the 22 footer in a marina for the season and use the Lund to trailer with. This way I won't have to get a third vehicle to tow the bigger boat with.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Trailerable cover: Top Gun vs Sunbrella?

Dodger,

Do you have any problem finding binding for the Top Gun? I use Sunbrella because it breathes better than Top Gun and when you sew a long length of Top Gun you can get a lot of seam shrinkage.

Here is a good forum that i belong to where a lot of people have opinions on both Sunbrella and Top Gun.

 

[Expidia]

Re: Trailerable cover: Top Gun vs Sunbrella?

Dodger,

Do you have any problem finding binding for the Top Gun? I use Sunbrella because it breathes better than Top Gun and when you sew a long length of Top Gun you can get a lot of seam shrinkage.

Here is a good forum that i belong to where a lot of people have opinions on both Sunbrella and Top Gun.

Bruce . . . you left no link!

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Trailerable cover: Top Gun vs Sunbrella?

Sorry about that!

http://www.get-up-and-go.com/upholstery-forum/

 

[Expidia]

Re: Trailerable cover: Top Gun vs Sunbrella?

Update: So I called Lund today to see if they would sell direct for the boat cover. They don't, but suggested I put in my zip code on their search for dealers page and make a few calls. They suggested that since the item is being dropped shipped that some dealers might be willing to give me a discount . . . it couldn't hurt to ask.

So I called the first place and she was rude and asked why I didn't just go back to the place I bought my boat from?

The second one was some elderly Lady and she quoted me $642 plus shipping and when I asked her if she would take a little off she said "NO . . . WE DON"T DISCOUNT"
So I said wow, you must be independently wealthy??? and I just hung up.

The 3rd call was somewhat out of my area about 100 miles West of me. The gentleman who answered was great . . . His name is John from Sun & Snow Recreation in NY MILLS, NY.

Johns a great guy. This is the type of guy you just WANT to business with.
I asked him for his best price and told him the place I bought my boat last year, after 30 yrs in business just changed hands. The old dealership was happy to give me a little off Lunds highly inflated accessory list prices, but the new dealer wants list now! They also own a marina on a big lake here and I've found from experience when they also own a marina, they tend to try and get all they can out of you since the season is so short.

John said he'd be happy to work with me on the price, since he's a business man and he'd be happy to make a sale, especially since he's only drop shipping it to my door anyway.

He made a call to Lund, then called me "right back" and told me they had two left in stock. I gave him my credit card info and the OEM trailerable cover (in gray) is on it's way.

I don't think this board is the place to discuss prices, so let me just say John made it "well worth my while" just for shopping my business around a little with a few phone calls.

I'm sure I'll need more Lund accessories and I'll give John my future business.

In addition to the Lund line, I asked him what other lines he has: Sales and Service for Lund, Evinrude, Mercruiser, Chaparral, and Avalon boats, motors & accessories.

I make it a habit of checking Iboats first when I'm shopping. But if you are in need of a brand specific item from Lund, Chaparral or Avalon Pontoons give John a shot at your business. He can be found on the web under: Sun & Snow Recreation

 

[cbavier]

Re: Trailerable cover: Top Gun vs Sunbrella?

I figure he must have a big roll of the Top Gun and tends to push it over Sunbrella.

I think I'll try another shop for a 2nd estimate. I think there are no tiedown straps because the Lund system has what's called a "Sport Track" all around the gunnels where the cover clips down along the outside of the rail. This uses a lot less material since it only clips over the edge.

He might be right about stretching, since if the Sunbrella does stretch, it's going to start lufting around and with no tie downs there is no way to take up the slack.

I have Sumbrella. Sumbrella does not stretch.and it also does not fade. Mine is ten years old. I trailer on the expressway at 60 MPH and it has never curled or blown up or failed. In fact Sumbrella shrinks and sometimes I have to dampen it to get it to stretch it far enough so I can snap it on. I would recommend Sumbrella to anyone.

 

[dodgeramsst2003]

Re: Trailerable cover: Top Gun vs Sunbrella?

Bruce, thanks for the link, I belong to that forum. Thats actually where I learned a lot of what I know from. I have to watch the seam shrink on a long run, but I usually am binding and webbing at the same time and that seems to help me from coming up to short. (I'm pulling the material tight to the webbing as I'm sewing) I haven't looked for top gun binding, I usually bind everything in black ( color permitting of course) and I use sunbrella binding. Go figure that one but it works for me. Sorry for the hijack, back to the lund. If this guy is not wanting to adjust price for the different material, then shop around. I know its hard once you find someone you like, but I'm sure their are a lot of people who do really nice work around you. Remember their reputation is riding on a quality product, and most of the canvas shops rely on word of mouth advertising.


Chris

 

[Expidia]

Re: Trailerable cover: Top Gun vs Sunbrella?

I have Sumbrella. Sumbrella does not stretch.and it also does not fade. Mine is ten years old. I trailer on the expressway at 60 MPH and it has never curled or blown up or failed. In fact Sumbrella shrinks and sometimes I have to dampen it to get it to stretch it far enough so I can snap it on. I would recommend Sumbrella to anyone.

Thx Cbavier, that's what I had figured. I couldn't see Lund selling their covers with a fabric that stretches abnormally or they would keep getting complaints. I knew this guy was just trying to make a few extra bucks off me. The Top Gun probably cost him half of what Sunbrella would cost him.

He buys a big roll and everybody gets gray from him one way or another.

Good to know that I can dampen it a little to stretch it out when snapping it down especially when it's new. I never thought of that.

And BTW it's Sunbrella with an "n" not an "M"

 

[Expidia]

Re: Trailerable cover: Top Gun vs Sunbrella?

Bruce, thanks for the link, I belong to that forum. Thats actually where I learned a lot of what I know from. I have to watch the seam shrink on a long run, but I usually am binding and webbing at the same time and that seems to help me from coming up to short. (I'm pulling the material tight to the webbing as I'm sewing) I haven't looked for top gun binding, I usually bind everything in black ( color permitting of course) and I use sunbrella binding. Go figure that one but it works for me. Sorry for the hijack, back to the lund. If this guy is not wanting to adjust price for the different material, then shop around. I know its hard once you find someone you like, but I'm sure their are a lot of people who do really nice work around you. Remember their reputation is riding on a quality product, and most of the canvas shops rely on word of mouth advertising.


Chris

Ya this is true but I hate to order custom and be disappointed with their craftsmanship. This guy at least does good work, but he's way off on his prices when quoting with Top Gun material in my opinion.

 

[dodgeramsst2003]

Re: Trailerable cover: Top Gun vs Sunbrella?

Most shops will keep a book of pictures of canvas jobs they have done. Ask to see it. You aren't going to change this guys mind on pricing, if you want "his" work, then you are going to have to pay for it ( and he knows this). I rarely every recommend doing this, but if his prices are out of line, have a couple of other shops quote on the job, and then use that to try and talk him down. ( side note though, if someone does this to me, I tell them to have the "other" shop do the work) It might work, it might not, but theres no harm in trying.

Chris

 

[Expidia]

Re: Trailerable cover: Top Gun vs Sunbrella?

Most shops will keep a book of pictures of canvas jobs they have done. Ask to see it. You aren't going to change this guys mind on pricing, if you want "his" work, then you are going to have to pay for it ( and he knows this). I rarely every recommend doing this, but if his prices are out of line, have a couple of other shops quote on the job, and then use that to try and talk him down. ( side note though, if someone does this to me, I tell them to have the "other" shop do the work) It might work, it might not, but theres no harm in trying.

Chris

It's not the money that's the issue. I've been in sales for 40 years and higher price has to have extra value added to it such as the quality of the work, the better materials and customer service after the sale.

I didn't complain paying the $740 for the enclosure and even recommended in a past thread because he did such nice work at a fair price considering the material used and extensive labor. When one goes the custom route you expect to pay more, since you expect to get exactly what you want.

It's a mute issue now since I already ordered the OEM cover in gray (they carry tan too) from John at Sun and Snow Recreation (a stand-up Lund dealer who saved me over $200 off of what other Lund dealers were trying to get for the same OEM cover).

Thx for your response and tips. It's especially appreciated from someone like yourself who is in the business and who must come across many pain customers who always seem to want something for nothing.

Money talks, Bullsh*t walks that's why I walked!

 

[Expidia]

Re: Trailerable cover: Top Gun vs Sunbrella?

Update: Dropped the wrong color bag back to the canvas shop today. He said it actually was Sunbrella, just the wrong color. They lost the original measurements and just guessed at the size and color . . . nice!

One would think being that this guy has been in business so long, he would write up a work order and I would get a copy so we are both on the same wave length as to what the finished product should look like as to color, material and size. especially when your dealing with custom orders!

They used the wrong color burgundy since it was so long by the time they made it up. Actually the wrong color burgundy was nicer than the one they made up for my enclosure and the color of my solid burgundy Bimini. This wrong color was a darker burgundy with some blue threads thru it.

If I had my choice,I would have chosen the darker color because it looks classier. He said it cost a few dollars more a yard too!

In any case, now that I have the OEM cover on the way. I can't cover the boat with the windshield in place, so I suggested to the canvas guy that he use the wrong bag he made up and cut it down to fit my windshield, so it's not a total waste. I will need another bag now to put my windshield in when it's not on the boat. I don't care if that bag does not match the rest of the boat, since it will only be tossed in my trunk when the windshields on the boat.

So I'll see what he charges me to redo that windshield bag.

In the end everything should work out as planned!

 

[vbarnett1025]

Re: Trailerable cover: Top Gun vs Sunbrella?

Dodger,

Do you have any problem finding binding for the Top Gun? I use Sunbrella because it breathes better than Top Gun and when you sew a long length of Top Gun you can get a lot of seam shrinkage.

Here is a good forum that i belong to where a lot of people have opinions on both Sunbrella and Top Gun.

Where is the best place to order Top Gun online?