hydrogen injection

[lucky7]

does anyone have one of these setups? is it the real deal? i think my f150 gets about 10mpg towing....

 

[45Auto]

Re: hydrogen injection

They definitely work to make money for the people who sell them. Everybody knows that all those engineers at Honda, GM, Toyota, Ford, etc are too stupid to realize that sticking a couple of electrodes in a glass of water would increase their gas mileage. If you combine the hydrogen injection with the magnets around the gas line (molecular alignment) you can actually have your car MAKE gasoline. This secret has been suppressed by the Al Gore bunch because they don't want gasoline running out your fill tube all over the road and polluting the environment while you're driving. Another clever trick used around here is to put bigger tires on the back of your car. That way you're always going downhill and never need to add gas.

 

[lucky7]

Re: hydrogen injection

im no scientist, but it seems feasible to me, h produced on demand, injected to the intake, obdII leans out the mixture, mpg goes up. just because honda isnt doing it doesnt make it impossible..

 

[Firestar]

Re: hydrogen injection

A buddy of mine and I are going to experiment with the concept. We have been tossing ideas around for some time.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: hydrogen injection

I would make one sincere suggestion.........

If you are going to experiment with Hydrogen or HHO or anything else (propane, alcohol, acetone, coppertone, water, dilithium crystals... etc)..... I would do it on a vehicle that is not your everyday car or one that is needed.

Never wear a red shirt during the test since the first people to get killed in Star Trek wore red shirts.

 

[JB]

Re: hydrogen injection

It is pure snake oil.

It takes more energy to electrolyze the H from water than it can produce burning in the engine. If you electrolyze it onboard you will need a few kilobux worth of batteries.

Like most snake oil gadgets it hides those significant facts from the suckers

 

[dave11]

Re: hydrogen injection

They definitely work to make money for the people who sell them. Everybody knows that all those engineers at Honda, GM, Toyota, Ford, etc are too stupid to realize that sticking a couple of electrodes in a glass of water would increase their gas mileage. If you combine the hydrogen injection with the magnets around the gas line (molecular alignment) you can actually have your car MAKE gasoline. This secret has been suppressed by the Al Gore bunch because they don't want gasoline running out your fill tube all over the road and polluting the environment while you're driving. Another clever trick used around here is to put bigger tires on the back of your car. That way you're always going downhill and never need to add gas.

The first sentence says it all.

 

[getinmerry]

Re: hydrogen injection

I have been experimenting with it for about 4 months now. I can honestly say that producing HHO is very easy and feasible. I was able to build a simple generator in about 15 minutes out of hardware store parts. Although I haven't installed it in a vehicle yet, I have run my 8hp Ariens rider with it.

My HHO generator produces about 1.75 liters of HHO per minute at 8 amps. This is by no means enough to run a vehicle, but it's a start. I was able to pick up an oxygen concentrator and use the flash-back arrestor and other assorted parts in order to make it safe. The stuff is very dangerous and explosive if not handled properly.

I see a lot of people here (and else where) spouting off about how it doesn't work. I can tell you honestly that it does work. The biggest problem others are facing right now is how to overcome the computer controls on the cars. It does work on non-computer motors, and I have seen a friend's Honda Civic turn 2500 rpm's solely on HHO with no fuel.

Don't knock it until you try it. HHO is in its infancy, but there is real hope here.

I know I'm leaving myself wide open to criticism here, but I'd be happy really share my findings with anyone whose interested. I'm not saying this is the answer, but it does look feasible at his time to me, given the research and hands-on trials I've done.

Chuck

 

[dave11]

Re: hydrogen injection

No one says it won't work. It is just not yet feasible. Some day I would love to fill my tank with water. You may have come up with a Rube Goldberg set up, but have you actually evaluated what it does under load? How does the hydrogen injection affect your power or mileage? You say you have a HHO generator. Don't you mean a hydrogen generator? HHO is the formula for water.

I don't mean to downplay what you have accomplished, but we have all made hydrogen and oxygen from water. What would be an advance is if you have come up with a device that generates more power from the resulting products than it takes to make them. I would be very interested in your findings. Someone will eventually come up with a feasible system. It sounds like you are very handy. That is how inventions are born. Keep us informed.

 

[getinmerry]

Re: hydrogen injection

No one says it won't work. It is just not yet feasible. Some day I would love to fill my tank with water. You may have come up with a Rube Goldberg set up, but have you actually evaluated what it does under load? How does the hydrogen injection affect your power or mileage? You say you have a HHO generator. Don't you mean a hydrogen generator? HHO is the formula for water.
QUOTE]

It is in fact HHO. The result after combustion is once again water.

I have no grand illusions that I'll be driving my 350 cu. in. truck around on water, but as I stated before- I am already ably to run small motors on it with 0 gas. My small tractor puts out 9.5 amps at full throttle. I can run it with HHO and no gas while drawing only 8 amps. This shows that in very simple terms the output exceeds the usage to generate the product.

Here's a thought: I have a 3500 watt AC generator. The generator has a 6.5hp motor on it. It also has a secondary coil built in that puts out 10 amps of 12 v DC for charging batteries. Theoretically, I can run that generator forever on just water. I haven't tried it because the generator is brand new and I don't want to risk blowing it up. But, there are a number of people on the internet that claim to have done it. Fox news even ran a story documenting it about 9 months ago (this is how I became interested in HHO).

Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlHCOm4tLDU

Multiple inventors have come up with ways to use electrical pulses to create the HHO. Using this method increases production 300-500% over regular methods and utilizes only 1/2 amp of power to do so. This puts the ratio of energy produced to energy used at about 120:1 by my crude calculations. I don't have the knowledge to create the pulsing circuitry, so at this point I'm dead-ended, but someday maybe

 

[JB]

Re: hydrogen injection

"This shows that in very simple terms the output exceeds the usage to generate the product."

Isaac Newton would be very interested in that, GIM. So would our old buddy Al Einstein.

Now figure out how to multiply that output by another 120 times, and then multiply. . . . You could rule the world!

I learned in grade 4 that, "Matter (and therefore energy, as they are the same thing) can neither be created nor destroyed". Is that wrong?

 

[45Auto]

Re: hydrogen injection

Best basic level explanation of the problem I've seen:

Electrolysis
See also: Electrolysis of water
Many alleged water-fuelled cars obtain hydrogen gas or a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen (sometimes called "oxyhydrogen") by the electrolysis of water, a process that must be powered electrically. The hydrogen or oxyhydrogen is then burned, supposedly powering the car and also providing the energy to electrolyse more water. The overall process can be represented by the following chemical equations:

2H2O → 2H2 + O2 [Electrolysis step]
2H2 + O2 → 2H2O [Combustion step]

Since the combustion step is the exact reverse of the electrolysis step, the energy released in combustion exactly equals the energy consumed in the electrolysis step, and?even assuming 100% efficiency?there would no energy left over to power the car. In other words, such systems start and end in the same thermodynamic state, and are therefore perpetual motion machines, violating the first law of thermodynamics. And under actual conditions in which hydrogen is burned, efficiency is limited by the second law of thermodynamics and is likely to be around 20%.[8][9] More energy is therefore required to drive the electrolysis cell than can be extracted from burning the resulting hydrogen-oxygen mixture.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water-fuelled_car

Getinmerry, if you have a process that produces more energy than is used to create it (1.1:1 would be great, doesn't need to be anywhere near 120:1 !!!) please contact me immiediatly! As JB says, we will very shortly rule the world!

 

[thefairlaneman]

Re: hydrogen injection

I know little about making hydrogen from water. Seems like it would require alot of energy but you can make hydrogen with a simple chemical process using cheap over the counter chemicals and to me that would be more practical if you need volume..The world waits for this new discovery to pan out or join the "bigfoot dummy" as just not true. Why not use one of those metal gismos that you slip into the air intake that produces a majic tornado that makes the engine burn fuel better with an increase of up to 40% in better gas milage also. I see they are still selling them on TV for 19.95 so they must work......................think not

 

[QC]

Re: hydrogen injection

Anybody wanna come over and play Russian Roulette with me? Seems like it would be less painful and less messy than this thread is gonna be . . .

Thermodynamics, schmermodynamics . . . what the flyin' flip does that have to do with any of this?

 

[getinmerry]

Re: hydrogen injection

I knew when I got involved in this thread that I was opening myself up for all sorts of critisism. I expect that because people that have a little knowledge of certain things suddenly feel that they are experts on everything when on the internet.

I have never made any claims as to my knowledge of chemistry, physics, or even electrcity. I CAN however state that under controlled conditions, I have run my lawn tractor run on "whatever" gas I'm producing. This is truth and very real. I have stated my measurments of amps (accurate with my Fluke meter) vs. output and ability to produce enough gas to run the mower. You can draw any conclusions that your brains will allow you to.

I am a backyard experimenter- nothing more. I tend to believe things I can see and touch vs. theorys and general "rules of thumb". The whole HHO thing intrigues me- nothing more. I am not saying that I have solved the world energy crisis. I'm simply playing around and entertaining my brain.

Now for the disclaimer that probably should have come with my first post: Everything stated about using HHO to run the tractor was done while the tractor was parked. I HAVE NOT run it under load using HHO. Under real world usage I am expecting that results would be greatly different and don't know if even possible.

People fear what they don't understand. That's human nature. I expected a thrashing with this thread. To be so closed-minded about something that has possible potential to help is silly. Take it for what it's worth, but don't put down something you know nothing about. It's like me saying that because you have an "H" in your name, your wife must be ugly...it just doesn't make sense. If I had all the answers, I wouldn't be sitting here at work.

 

[getinmerry]

Re: hydrogen injection

A thought just occurred to me:

I think everyone here is looking at water as fuel as a 100% replacement for gasoline. Although some people are making these claims, I never have even considered this a viable solution. However, if you look at it from this point of view, you might see it for what it is...a potential fuel extender.

First off, if you are supplementing gasoline with an extremely combustible gas like HHO in place of air, the combustion process will be more complete and the motor will run better with increased performance (this is fact).

Second, HHO is produced with water and as a natural part of this process, moisture is carried into the cylinder. This cools the cylinder and increases compression (this too is a fact).

Third, One of the worst milage robbing culprits in a vehicle is carbon build-up. The added moisture in the HHO removes the carbon and keeps it clean. This allows the motor to maximize any fuel consumed (once again another fact).

Most modern car alternators can put out about 100amps. Typically, a car consumes about 1/4 to 1/2 of those amps under normal driving conditions. Why not use 10-20 of those extra amps to produce a gas that will help increase your fuel milage by even 10%?

Even if HHO doesn't have any benefit on its own with combustion, the second and third things should help increase milage by themselves.

Just my 2cents worth.

 

[QC]

Re: hydrogen injection

getinmerry,

I will pretty much razz anybody for a chuckle, sorry you ended up in my sights . . . With that said, please understand I probably do not qualify as a "people (person) that have (has) a little knowledge of certain things suddenly feel(ing) that they(he) are (is an) expert(s) on everything when on the internet" . I actually sell alternative fuel conversions for heavy amd medium-duty trucks for a living . . . I have done so for about 15 years and prior to that I had a 15 year career in heavy-duty Diesel engines.

Aaaaaand, Mr. 45 Auto and Mssr. JB up there, with their thermo schmermo stuff, are prolly stronger on this kinda stuff than I am because I am "just a stupid salesman" according to another "people (person) that have (has) a little knowledge of certain things suddenly feel(ing) that they(he) are (is an) expert(s) on everything when on the internet"

 

[getinmerry]

Re: hydrogen injection

This will most likely be my last post on this subject because it's making me a little hot under the collar. BUT.......

I spent some time reading over the Wikipedia article cited above. It is very skewed. Please remember that Wikipedia is not a site that is based 100% in fact. It is a site that relies on people like you and I for its content. I can write and article on how the sun is acually made of ice and is so cold that it feels hot due to the nerve structure of the human body and publish it without anybody proofing it for validity.

I also spent quite a bit of time following the references listed. One of them is a multi-part article from Popular Science. In part 2 of the article dated August 8, 2008 at the end of the article it states "I had another long talk yesterday with Steve Rumore, my off-road buddy turned HHO donater. He's experimenting with several vehicles, and actually getting some consistent results?fuel-economy improvements to the tune of 10 to 12 percent on diesel trucks pulling trailers".

The article ends there, part 3 is yet to be written, but the author is eluding that there may actually be something to this.

Please remember that Wikipedia is not a reliable resource. It can easily be manipulated be people with an adgenda to show whatever facts they see fit.

Case in point: I recently was helping my daughter do a school report on a local indian tribe. I am farily well-versed on this tribe, but needed some pictures for the report. I looked it up on Wikipedia. About 30% of things they listed as facts were TOTALLY incorrect. They even had 2 pictures from a different tribe about 100 miles away. Total garbage.

 

[QC]

Re: hydrogen injection

Water injection alone can improve efficiency and power

 

[thefairlaneman]

Re: hydrogen injection

Before I made any more negative comments I googled it up. It seems there really is something to the hydrogen generator that can be made at home. I saw where a guy put one on his 10mph v8 truck and got a true increase of about 4 mpg. I havent read the details of how to make one yet but its worth tryin. It looks like with all the concern over better gas milage that we would have seen this mass produced and used on cars years ago, wonder whats up with all of that?