hydrogen injection

[rwise]

Re: hydrogen injection

Liability! H goes boom, but it works by all I know that use it, or so they claim,,
I used acetone in my 84 dodge truck until I sold it, I got a boost in performance, starting, better idle and 7 more miles to the gallon. (there is/was a thread here on it) I had no problems with it. I may have to look more into this HHO generator! I have a generator that I could run my home with, man to tell the power Co to take a hike!

 

[QC]

Re: hydrogen injection

I found a good site to review all of this type of stuff. Of course I like this guy because he is singing my tune, but he makes a lot of sense and seems reasonably unbiased. Tony's Fuel Saving Site Place Thing Deal Stuff

One thing he doesn't seem to note, that I often refer to, is that some additives do in fact increase your gasoline or diesel mileage as they have energy content their ownselves. Like the Moth Ball Napthalene stuff does slightly because Napthalene is in fact a fuel (it contains energy in it). So absolutely, adding Napthalene or Acetone to your engine will increase power or fuel mileage etc. by some unmeasurable amount because you have just added more fuel . . . To claim economy improvements is ludicrous because you could also buy some additonal fuel at your local fuel station for a fraction of the cost of the new fuel i.e. more gasoline or diesel . . .

 

[Feorine]

Re: hydrogen injection

First, I will concede that there may be benefits to using this system. Some of those, as mentioned above, are due to water vapor carried in from the process of making the HHO gas, and water vapor from the combustion of the HHO back into H2O. As for carbon deposits, if you are running 100% on the HHO, there will be no carbon at all in the combustion products, just water.

That said, running 100% on HHO generated on board the vehicle is perpetual motion, and is impossible. The Wikipedia article is essentially accurate on this point. Wikipedia is for the most part accurate, and is usually corrected by someone who actually knows, when it is not. In the case mentioned above where someone found info that was not true, you should have corrected it.

If you have 1 horsepower driving the alternator, the alternator can produce 746 watts, which is 54.8 amps at 13.6 volts. That will produce some amount of the HHO gas over a period of time, and if the process were 100% efficient, could be calculated exactly. Now, the engine is going to produce a turning force to run the alternator, and will also produce heat. So, the engine cannot put out the same power for the same amount of time, as was needed to produce that amount of fuel.

Ron

 

[45Auto]

Re: hydrogen injection

Hydrogen injection does work in some cases. Basically it makes the mixture leaner and hotter, therefore more efficient. There's a couple of companies in Canada that have been making H2 kits for diesel trucks for 4 or 5 years with documented results. There is also at least one SAE paper on the subject that I remember.

Nice thing about diesel is that it will controllably ignite over a HUGE range of O/F ratios. That's the main reason that diesels don't need a throttle valve in the air intake. Mixture ratio isn't critical. Same thing IS NOT true for gasoline engines. Run your gas engine lean under load for a few minutes (or possibly seconds depending on mixture and load) and you get to buy a new engine.

I can see an H2 injection scheme increasing mileage if it leans out your mixture so it burns hotter, and the increased efficiency offsets the increased power demand to electrolyze the water. Maybe not a bad thing if your carb or computer is running a little rich anyway. But as Bob_VT said earlier, you might not want to experiment too much in a car you have to depend on, and especially not if it's already tuned pretty close to max efficiency (leaned out and burning hot).

 

[Hoss the Hermit]

Re: hydrogen injection

does anyone have one of these setups? is it the real deal? i think my f150 gets about 10mpg towing....

Made my first one 20 years ago to go on my'73 F-250 plow truck. Gas mileage went from about 6mpg to about 9mpg. Did some tweaking on the design, took my '84 Bronco from about 12mpg to around 19mpg. Running one now on my '02 Tacoma getting 38 mpg. Trying to set one up for the Lightwins, but not sure how much I'll gain

 

[thefairlaneman]

Re: hydrogen injection

hoss how about a picture of this set up? I am surprised how easy it is to make some burnable hydogen without messy by products.

 

[45Auto]

Re: hydrogen injection

Made my first one 20 years ago to go on my'73 F-250 plow truck. Gas mileage went from about 6mpg to about 9mpg. Did some tweaking on the design, took my '84 Bronco from about 12mpg to around 19mpg. Running one now on my '02 Tacoma getting 38 mpg. Trying to set one up for the Lightwins, but not sure how much I'll gain​

You've got something that'll increase gas mileage 50% and you're messing with a Lightwin???? No offense, dude, but if you can do that you should be sitting on a yacht the size of an aircraft carrier in the Bahamas somewhere! Ought to be able to make Bill Gates look like a begger!​

 

[QC]

Re: hydrogen injection

EXACTLY!! ^^^^ This is the other reason I dismiss most of this stuff. A 50% improvement in efficiency or economy is absolutely HUGE!!! Engine development engineers are ecstatic when they acheive 3% improvements.

Hoss, you can come to my Employer's Engine technology development site in San Diego on our nickel, and we'll pay you for your time if you can give me data . . . fuel(s) rate in and horsepower out would be sufficient. We will build the device to your specifications and we will attach it to an engine of your choice. I am dead serious. I would love to thumb my nose at Bill Gates with you . . .

 

[j_martin]

Re: hydrogen injection

I'm just an old phart sittin' on the fence, but I have been around for awhile. 1970's engines were tuned so durned fat in mix that almost anything that put a hole in the manifold drastically increased mileage.

I took a Chev 350 engine in a small bus cum engineering van from 7 mpg to 12. Understand that the body design is basically parachute. I changed out the "power valve" to keep it from going full rich at high manifold vacuums, and I put the distributor on an old distributor testing machine (the one with the spinning nixie lights) and hand re-ground the advance cams till I got it to advance smoothly to it's limit instead of snapping out at about 2500 (1250 on the distributor) rpms like originally set up. That enabled me to considerably advance the timing without pre-ignition. Then I installed a lockout solenoid on the quadrajet secondaries, the same solenoid advanced the timing quite a bit. (actually a spring locked the carbs and advanced the timing. Energizing the solenoid retarded the timing and let the carb go.)

It had so much power on the primaries that I very seldom needed to hit the switch. I did it once for grins and giggles, and everything in the van was against the back door in a heartbeat.

Modern gas engines are much better tuned. Absolutely none of the above applies to them.

My 02
John

 

[j_martin]

Re: hydrogen injection

Correction, I changed a spring in the carb on the Chevy. A Ford Hi-cube van with a similar sized engine that I did at the same time had the "power" valve that I changed.

It's been a long time, and my wife says I have CRS, but I can't remember what that is.

John

 

[QC]

Re: hydrogen injection

Yes, improving state of the art stuff is the nut that we try to crack . . . Very difficult and very expensive.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: hydrogen injection

Okay I am driving a Yaris with a 1.5L engine getting better that 40 mpg with an automatic.....

I have a scan gauge II in the car so I can watch the engine functions....

The Yaris is equipped with DFCO which is amazing. Direct Fuel Injection Cut Off..... when I let go of the pedal the fuel is cut off from the engine and it is consuming nothing. If I am going down hill and shift into neutral the engine consumes between .19 and .20 GPH but if I just let off the gas I am using .000 GPH (gallons per hour).

The same is not true in my older 4runner which does not have DFCO. I would imagine that would help.

QC is right. Improving the modern technology is better.