Coast guard hits a boat....

[Drowned Rat]

Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

It wasn't a Coast Guard boat. Please stop calling it that.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

Title 42 comes to mind. If a person, under color of law, violates your civil rights (Certainly running you over with a Coast Guard boat fits this description) you have the right to sue that person, personally, attacking any of his assets in Federal District Court.

If I were the skipper of the small boat, I'd be after him like a Doberman in a Junkyard.

John

Majority of opinions expressed so far, are (to varying degrees) that this was not so much an accident as it was a preventable collision between boats "under the command" of two individuals who were obviously supremely unfit for that command.
CGA boat failed to keep clear according to accepted standards, pleasure boat failed to pay attention....or "maintain an adequate watch."
Both guilty! Next case please!
Makes sense to me and I couldn't agree more.

I don't understand how this could or should translate to a civil rights violation and a lawsuit.
If the Coast Guard adequately repairs the boat what are the guy's damages beyond that?
Pain and suffering?...right! He'll be dining out on this story for years....and it will get better with each telling...

It should be better to focus on the fact that there were no injuries, be thankful, and learn from the event.

Oh well, this is a North American mindset, and we all are paying for it.

 

[SnappingTurtle]

Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

It wasn't a Coast Guard boat. Please stop calling it that.

How about, “Big White Boat” & “Little White Boat”.

I know, I know Drowned Rat.

Don't take it so hard, to most people there is no difference, no matter how many times you point out there is. It just makes it a better story, and nothing you say about getting the details right, is going to mess up the story.

Oh well, this is a North American mindset, and we all are paying for it.

It's not just North America.

My German neighbors love to laugh about the court system in America, yet spend more a month on attorneys trying to prove to each other they are always right, than they spend on everything else in their life put together.

 

[CATransplant]

Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

Civil rights? That's ridiculous. This is a simple property damage thing. Legally, probably the "big white boat" was at fault, and will probably have to make the "small white boat's" owner's boat all better.

For Pete's sake, what do civil rights have to do with a boating accident?

Had it been me in the smaller boat and I got hit by the bigger boat because I wasn't watching where I was going, I'd say, "Oops!" and get myself a new boat and pay better attention thereafter.

Whoever was driving the "big white boat," is also an idiot. Rather than holler on a bullhorn, he could easily have backed off on the throttle and avoided the collision altogether. If, indeed, it was a CGA boat, then he's even more the idiot, since he should know he was the "give way" boat.

Still, I would accept my responsibility for driving the little boat and not watching boat traffic. Staring at girls in bikinis is probably not a good enough excuse for inattention to the helm.

 

[NelsonQ]

Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

Had it been me in the smaller boat and I got hit by the bigger boat because I wasn't watching where I was going, I'd say, "Oops!" and get myself a new boat and pay better attention thereafter

I watched that video again, was the really Oops driving the boat?

Just kidding of course. I do agree with you though CA. Regardless of fault, at the end the small white boat guy should pay attention and the large white boat guy had the ability to prevent it.

Two wrongs, nothing right comes of it.

 

[idrownworms]

Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

it all comes down to RED LIGHT GREEN LIGHT!
and the second rule nobody pays attention to lights

after watching the crash i was left wondering, don't the coast guard (aux) boats have throttle and steering control?

while i agree that both drivers were at fault the driver of the small boat was (according to his statement) clearly looking on his give way side of the boat
while the driver of the big boat was also looking on the give way side of his boat and saw the other boat and took no evasive action.

jamie

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

Drowned Rat is correct, there are obvious problems with this video. The boat with the CG stripe on the side is an official USCG vessel. This is evident both by the type of boat it is, and the presence of the hull markings. Auxilliary vessels are not allowed to have the red CG stripe on the hull.

While it may be true that an Aux boat hit another boat, it wasn't the boat depicted in this video.

 

[SnappingTurtle]

Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

Drowned Rat is correct, there are obvious problems with this video. The boat with the CG stripe on the side is an official USCG vessel. This is evident both by the type of boat it is, and the presence of the hull markings. Auxilliary vessels are not allowed to have the red CG stripe on the hull.

While it may be true that an Aux boat hit another boat, it wasn't the boat depicted in this video.

I don't think anyone disputed the fact, that there is more than one boat in the film.

It would be kind of hard for the film crew to film the boat that they are riding in. He is also right that the boat that the crew is in, is a CG Aux. Boat, not the CG boat the film crew was filming during the rescue.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

Agreed ST, but here's the problem with this video - the way it is edited, it gives the impression that the official CG boat was the one that hit the smaller boat. To me its an important issue because the average person doesn't understand the distinction between the regular CG and the Aux CG. What they will remember after seeing this video, is the boat with the red USCG stripe. From that point on, they will equate any regular CG small boat as being of the same group that ran someone over.

We have all read the threads abouts boardings and other interaction with the Guard. Many of the posts are quite negative, and exhibit a great deal of misunderstanding in regard to what the USCG does on a daily basis. To put it directly, the CG doesn't need a bunch pf bad press and they don't need some journalist and/or editor falsely representing them.

 

[SnappingTurtle]

Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

Agreed ST, but here's the problem with this video - the way it is edited, it gives the impression that the official CG boat was the one that hit the smaller boat. To me its an important issue because the average person doesn't understand the distinction between the regular CG and the Aux CG. What they will remember after seeing this video, is the boat with the red USCG stripe. From that point on, they will equate any regular CG small boat as being of the same group that ran someone over.

We have all read the threads abouts boardings and other interaction with the Guard. Many of the posts are quite negative, and exhibit a great deal of misunderstanding in regard to what the USCG does on a daily basis. To put it directly, the CG doesn't need a bunch pf bad press and they don't need some journalist and/or editor falsely representing them.

We are often exposed to creatively edited media reports.

I guess because of my profession, I look at them with a critical, or skeptical eye. I question what is said, because that is what I am trained to do. I sometimes forget that not everyone else does also. I would hope that people won't take things at face value, and try to read between the lines when needed.

Taking that into consideration, I heard the reporter making a positive report on the role of the Coast Guard in a active rescue operation, when in the middle of this report, the Capitan of the Auxiliary boat that the reporter was riding in, was itself involved in an easy avoidable accident.

What was the reporter to do shut off the camera.

We have a freedom in America, it is important, and yes sometimes misused, the freedom of the press. Not all countries have this privilege, and in most parts of the world this film, in any form, would have never seen the light of day.

We are lucky to have this, and one of the organizations we can thank for having it is the US Coast Guard.

This freedom (within the rules we all agreed to) has also been shown here on this forum, people have voiced their opinions without fear of retribution. Well maybe the fear of being Banned by our friendly Mods, but that is the worse that will happen to any of us, and we are lucky to be in parts of the world where we, and yes the media have a voice.

The Coast guard gets the press they deserve, just like all other arms of the government. If we stop reporting the bad, and only report the good we as a nation will be less than we are now.

Now once again, the "Big White Boat” that hit the “Little White Boat”, WAS NOT A US COAST GAURD BOAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was a Auxiliary boat with a volunteer captain, and while the may be trained also, they are not the professionals that the US Coast guard is.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

I guess I have a view of the media based on profession also - in my case, a past profession.

I used to get interviewed by various publications and do the occassional TV news interview. I had a rule with them - you misquote me, quote me out of context or edit what I said to change the meaning of what was said, and I will never talk to you again. This rule was borne of previous, bad experiences. Since I was interviewed by print media vastly more than TV media, the problem was sometimes a product of a crappy journalist who couldn't manage to take good notes. On other ocassions, it was obvious to me that the reporter arrived with an agenda and a preconceived notion of "the facts." Most often when "creative editing" happened, it seemed to be for marketing purposes - it was the old thing about creating controversial headlines to sell more papers, or keep the ad revenue up via higher viewer stats.

The damage in this video begins before it is even viewed. The header says "Coast Guard Hits and Sinks Boat." It should have said "Coast Guard Auxilliary." Once the video rolls, the rest of the incorrect perception is formed in the first 45 seconds. The opening shot is of the regular CG patrol boat. The reporter then goes on to say that the Aux boat that he was on began to block other boats. Immediately after he says this, there is another cutaway to the regular CG boat. The obvious result of this kind of editing is that people think the regular CG boat is what a CG Aux boat looks like, and a "forever" association between it and the CG Aux is formed.

Also, other than an extremely brief reference to the skipper of the Aux boat being a volunteer, there isn't even a short explanation in the video, about the difference between the regular Guard and the Aux.

The problem with the video isn't with the camera man, its with the editor and the reporter, who would be involved in the editing process. Whether they created the end product the way they did out of incompetence or agenda, we obvioulsy don't know. The simple fact of the matter, however, is that the piece could have been done differently in the voice-over stage, in a way that would have presented the story properly. That said, I guess Drowned Rat & I take exception to it because we are both ex-CG and don't take kindly to our proud Service being misrepresented.

 

[SnappingTurtle]

Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

First off, let me thank you both for serving, in what is my favorite branch of the Armed Services!

You are right about the misleading lead in, and the subjective omitance (is that a word) and some inaccuracies in the facts about the two different organizations involved. I guess I just expect this type of journalism in todays news. I considered this piece to be not too bad, in comparison to what one generally receives.

I do understand how it feels to be regularly Tared & Feathered” by the general public, and the media alike, for doing what should be considered a service to them. Sometimes you just need thick skin.

I think it is lack of knowledge, and yes, sometimes ignorance on their part that makes them susceptible to this type of news. The media itself is also very often ignorant of what they are reporting, and sometimes so pressed for time in making the next news block with their story, they make mistakes. The time that would have been used in the past to research before airing a story is no longer available to them.

Everyone wants instant news sound bites. As the amount of time we each give to the news everyday drops continuously, the amount of news data we consume in that time explodes. The quality has suffered.

It is also often what the public wants to hear, so it is what the media channels deliver. High viewer quotas, mean high advertising rates. No advertising, no media jobs.

I live at the moment in a country where the government controls most news stations, negative news about the party in control is censored, not to the extent that we see in other countries of the world, Russia, China, and the Middle East for example, but enough to mislead the general public. If I have to choose between bad journalism, mixed with good journalism (our system), and a system of censorship. My choice is easy.

It is now just up to me to use the news channels available to me to filter through what is out there to find the truth. I guess I have gotten so use to doing so that I do it without thinking about it. When I hear a badly edited piece, I am not surprised. It is when I hear a very good piece, that I freak out now.

What else can I say.

Once again, thanks guys.

 

[SnappingTurtle]

Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

One other thing is the title of the video, “Coast Guard Hits And Sinks Boat” came from the “Video Blogger” not the Journalist. He is also located not in America, but in Australia, and has everything from porn to rap videos posted. Not who I would trust for a truthful title to a news piece.

I watched the video itself again, and I still don't find it as bad as you two are making it out to be.

 

[45Auto]

Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

I don't understand all the whining about the "Auxiliary" not being the "real" Coast Guard. They are under the command of the Coast Guard Commandant just like the rest of the Coast Guard. If they're not part of the Coast Guard then call them something else and get rid of any association with the Coast Guard.

From http://www.uscg.mil/comdt/

Current Auxiliary (and regular Coast Guard) Commandant:

"Admiral Thad W. Allen assumed the duties of the 23rd Commandant of the U.S. Coast Guard on May 25th, 2006. As such, he leads the largest component of the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), comprised of about 42,000 men and women on Active Duty, 7,000 civilians, 8,000 Reservists and 34,000 volunteer Auxiliarists."

Looks like the auxiliary is the real Coast Guard since it makes up a majority (about 60%) of the Coast Guard.

According to the US Coast Guard page here http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg3/cg3pcx/

"The United States Coast Guard Auxiliary is the uniformed volunteer component of Team Coast Guard. Founded in 1939 by an Act of Congress as the US Coast Guard Reserves and re-designated the Auxiliary in 1941. The 28,000 volunteer members (men and women) donate thousands of hours in support of Coast Guard missions."

From US Code 14.23, Coast Guard Auxiliary: (http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg3/cg3pcx/title14.asp)

Sec. 827. Vessel deemed public vessel

"While assigned to authorized Coast Guard duty, any motorboat or yacht shall be deemed to be a public vessel of the United States and a vessel of the Coast Guard within the meaning of sections 646 and 647 of this title and other applicable provisions of law."

Sec. 831. Assignment and performance of duties

"No member of the Auxiliary shall be placed in charge of a motorboat, yacht, aircraft, or radio station assigned to Coast Guard duty unless he has been specifically designated by authority of the Commandant to perform such duty. Members of the Auxiliary, when assigned to duties as herein authorized shall, unless otherwise limited by the Commandant, be vested with the same power and authority, in the execution of such duties, as members of the regular Coast Guard assigned to similar duty."

"Auxiliarists usually use their own boats, aircraft and radios (and also serve on Coast Guard assets) in carrying out Coast Guard operation missions, or apply specialized skills such as carpentry, cooking, or professional skills such as medical, legal or computer sciences to assist in Coast Guard missions. When using their own boats, aircraft and radios they first offer their property to the Coast Guard, and upon acceptance, become US Government property while they are performing authorized missions for the Coast Guard."

You can deny it all you want, but under law the Coast Guard Auxiliary IS the Coast Guard.

 

[legoman67]

Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

the other thing you have to consider is the agility of the larger vessel(CGA) i doubt it can stop on a dime, plus it looks like the other boat would have missed it, but then turned at the last minute. I dont think the captain of the CGA had enough time to respond.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

For what it is worth, I have read this thread front to back and while I think I can understand the rush by a few posters to defend the Coast Guard , I don't think that the video (whatever spin one puts its "journalistic" standards, or lack) creates a negative aura around this branch of the services at all;.
.
As a foreigner watching from a distance, and tuning back in when there are additional posts, I honestly keep forgetting the connection with the Coast Guard until I get reminded in the thread.
It was simply a dumb collision with a debatable ratio of blame assignable to the wheel men, depending on your perspective

Instead, given the true rarity of incidents like this, and the huge number of boat movements that the CG does, my impression has to be that the CG really have their stuff together.

Let's give both those drivers a mulligan and thank the stars that by a matter of a foot or two there were no serious injuries or fatalities.
I do know that I'd get in a boat with either of those two at the wheel with no hesitation ~ there will not be two more careful boaters on the water, at least for now....

 

[Drowned Rat]

Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

Lol at 45Auto.

Oh, what's your point?

Comparing the Coast Guard Aux. to the Regular Coast Guard is like calling the civil air patrol the U.S. Air Force or the Boy Scouts the U.S. Army. Rediculous. Oversight of the Aux. is minimal to even non-existent in some areas. They have their own chain of command and ultimately answer to no one. They are, after all, civilians.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

The wish that the story had been more clear is just one of protecting the reputation of a very proud and effective Service. The average person really has little idea what the CG does on a day to day basis. Many think its just a bunch of guys cruising around on small boats, checking out babes in bikinis. A story like this reinforces these kinds of negative perceptions of the regular CG, not because it shouldn't be told, but because it should have been told more clearly. Decent journalists put clarifications and disclaimers in stories all of the time.

As for the skipper of the Aux boat, I think he needs to be suspended from operations for awhile, and required to take refresher courses in seamanship. The other boat clearly had the right of way and the Aux skipper had plenty of time to change course. I suspect that what happened here is that the Aux skipper was trying to cut him off to keep him out of the search area. Doing so might have been something that the Aux skipper perceived to be his duty, but you don't run a vessel over to accomplish something that is not critical. You also should not become distracted by blathering on a PA, to the exclusion of handling your boat. Drive the boat first, talk later or give the mic to someone else on the boat.

Many people who join the CG Auxilliary are really great, but frankly, many are complete idiots who act like exciteable children. This is one of the reasons why regular Coast Guardsmen treat them with a certain amount of mistrust. In this case, what may have been going on is that the Aux skipper, who may have also been the owner of the boat he was driving, was excited about being on TV and was "putting on a show" for the camera crew. By this I certainly don't mean he hit the boat on purpose, but he may have been trying to make himself look like "the hero" by keeping the small boat out of the search area.

At the end of the day, however, what is really important is that it was a really stupid accident that could have been tragic. The saving grace is that no one was killed or seriously injured.

 

[45Auto]

Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

Drowned Rat, post #37:

Oh, what's your point?

Ok, I'll see if i can make it a little clearer to you. try to follow closely ....

Drowned Rat, post #10:

I don't know what boat collided with the speedboat, but I can tell you without a doubt, it was not a U.S. Coast Guard boat.

Drowned Rat, post #21:

It wasn't a Coast Guard boat. Please stop calling it that.

Now look up US Code 14.23, Sec 827. It's here http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg3/cg3pcx/title14.asp as referenced in my earlier post:

Sec. 827. Vessel deemed public vessel

"While assigned to authorized Coast Guard duty, any motorboat or yacht shall be deemed to be a public vessel of the United States and a vessel of the Coast Guard within the meaning of sections 646 and 647 of this title and other applicable provisions of law."

Don't know how I can make it any clearer for you. If a vessel is performing Coast Guard Auxiliary duties, it IS a Coast Guard boat. Might as well quit whining about it and stop trying to defend it by claiming it's "not part of the real Coast Guard" because by law (referenced above) it is!

Jay, are you claiming the Coast Guard actually does more than sail around checking out the bikinis???

 

[Drowned Rat]

Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

45, it wasn't a Coast Guard boat, it was a Coast Guard Aux. boat. Not a military vessel, but a volunteer's hobby craft. Clearly you have no clue what you are talking about, but thanks for your interest in the Coast Guard Aux. Maybe you should look into joining. Then you'd know just what it is the organization is all about.

There is no argument that the Aux. fall under the direction of the Coast Guard. But they are not Coast Guard just because that's who regulates them. Either way, you knew exactly what I meant by "It's not a Coast Guard boat", you're just being difficult... and annoying.