1993 Tilt Trim Seals

[Scarab 28]

I have a 1993 Yamaha 250 HP. This past sunday the seal around the center piston gave way and the seals aren't sold as a kit in any marine store in my area. Can someone help guide me to a place to get these seals without having to pay the outrageous amount of money requested for the whole center cylinder with piston assembly? Or can a seal be made somewhere? Please help I have a trip planned for the holidays and this problem will keep me high and dry. Thank you to all!!!!

 

[JUSTINTIME]

Re: 1993 Tilt Trim Seals

boats.net

 

[rodbolt]

Re: 1993 Tilt Trim Seals

no kits.
you will need the tilt cap spanner wrench or an acceptable spanner by a reputable manufacture as the cap is torqued to 80ft lbs.
DO NOT attempt the hammer and punch method as it wont work and will make it very difficult to impossible for the tech to remove.
loosen the tilt ram cap BEFORE removing the T&T assy from the clamp brackets.
with the tilt unit on the bench secured in a vise use a 12v battery or jumper pack to extend the tilt ram.
blue to + and green to - makes it go up.
then reverse the leads and lighty tap them to the battery to relieve the up pressure.
now remove the cap and withdraw the ram assy.
now power the tilt motor UP again to withdraw the tilt memory piston.
now drain the fluid from the tilt piston and carefully inspect the bore for damage.

next lock the tilt ram in the vise by the anchor pin end,using the correct size wrench remove the piston assy and withdraw the cap being careful not to lose the springs and balls in the piston assy.
if no burrs or defects are found with the tilt bore,ram shaft or piston assy then replace all orings,backup rings,seals and wipers .
reassemble in reverse and go play.
its easy if ya say it quick.

 

[Scarab 28]

Re: 1993 Tilt Trim Seals

I wasn't able to find any seals to any of the pistons so i decided to run the entire unit to a machine shop. They were able to remove the caps of all three pistons and the trim ones were easy to fabricate but the tilt (center long piston) is quite a mission. According to the hydraulic mechanic/tech it's too risky to remove the lower part of the ram/piston if it were even possible because of the valves etc. Yet the other end has the piece that attaches to the motor with a pin and two bushings. So he called me to ask if it were okay to perfectly remove the top end of the piston off slide the old seals out and fabricate new ones then perfectly weld the attachment piece back on. I would only loose about 1.5 to 2mm of shaft. The motor has much more play so i went ahead and approved the work. I should have the unit back on my coast this sat. I will advise of the outcome.
As far as the breakdown for cost it goes like this.
If i wanted a whole brand new tilt trim unit i can order one for about $3,000
If i wanted to order just the tilt cylinder (center one) $900

I took the unit to a machine shop and all three seals are being made the shaft being cut and welded professionally, unit painted to prevent corrosion, and all threads being tapped to make bolts go on easier since they all have corrosion deposit. So far i'm still under $300.00. Does this seem logical to anyone else?

 

[rodbolt]

Re: 1993 Tilt Trim Seals

nope
makes no sense at all
you went from the tilt leaking to dissasembling the trim rams as well.
then sounds like the tech is clueless as there are no valves in the tilt cylinder other than some springs and balls and the memory piston.
if your tech is scared just ask him to say so.
the trim unit on that engine is very straight forward and simple to repair.
good luck.

 

[Bermuda]

Re: 1993 Tilt Trim Seals

Hi I have a yamaha 115 2002 and have had endless trouble with the trim unit. Is the method you posted for replacing the seals in the centre ram the same process for the other two rams? I have several spare units that I was going to pillage for good seals as I don't seem to be able to by them. Are the seals generally damaged upon removal?
Regards Bermuda.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: 1993 Tilt Trim Seals

Bermuda
start a new thread with your problem and is it a 2 stroke 115 or a four stroke?

 

[Scarab 28]

Re: 1993 Tilt Trim Seals

Hey RodBolt,

I couldn't seem to find seals to replace with anywhere. Instead new seals were made. I had the tech replace the trim seals since i dont want to be taking it all back apart, just seemed logical to get it all at once since it's already out of commission. Anyways back to the bottom end of the tilt shaft, there isn't any valves down there. How would the piston not have come out when the cap was removed. Also the wiper seals are impossible to find as well.

 

[PBJohn]

Re: 1993 Tilt Trim Seals

I had the same issue with a 1999 and did the same as Scarab 28. Cut the eye off and re-welded. I was able to buy the seals through Yamaha but was told the only way to repair it is by replacing the entire ram assembly. If the piston on the end of the shaft does come off I would like to know how for future information. Rodbolt?

 

[Scarab 28]

Re: 1993 Tilt Trim Seals

Update....
Wiper seals have now become the problem because they are proprietary to Yamaha. So the machine shop has machined a grove in the cylinder where a fabricated wiper will snap into. This will hopefully keep water and debris out of the unit.

PBJohn: Has your unit functioned well after having the ram cut and re welded? Lucky for you seals were available all of mine have had to be made for me which has cost a little bit more but the unit is rust free so i can justify the cost. I only have about a dime sized rust spot on the top of the actual motor which was sand blasted and repainted by the machine shop.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: 1993 Tilt Trim Seals

dunno why yall have problems, I just did a 250 tilt ram today. replaced all the orings,backup rings and wiper seal.
all in stock.
the wiper seal has nothing to do with any fluid leakage on the 61A unit .
you simply remove the tilt cap,power the ram all the way up, lock the cross pin end in a vice and unscrew the nut and remove the piston assy then the cap.
took me all of about 2 hours and maybe 20 dollars worth of orings and seals.
the only valving is the springs and balls for the tilt relief at impact.
its a very simple unit.
ill try to find the part numbers but they are avalible at any yamaha dealer.

 

[PBJohn]

Re: 1993 Tilt Trim Seals

I have not had any issues. Works just like it did in the past except I no longer have any leaks. Yamaha told me I need to replace the entire piston sub assembly because it is not serviceable. I was able to order the seals from the local dealer so I gave it a shot. So far so good and it's been a year.

 

[James R]

Re: 1993 Tilt Trim Seals

Rodbolt, you did a good job. Something about " you can lead a horse to water..........."

 

[cousinabe]

Re: 1993 Tilt Trim Seals

I agree good job.
The Tilt ram can be removed from the unit as described above. Once removed, the tilt ram can be disassembled by removing the bolt on the bottom. You need to disassemble the tilt ram to change all the seals.

The seals can be found on boats.net website.

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Y...250TXRR/POWER TRIM & TILT ASSEMBLY/parts.html
parts 3,4,5. I did notice there are no top seals on the tilt ram in this schematic. Do you have the original PTT unit on your motor?

The schematic for my motor (1997) shows the oil seal on the titl ram cap.
http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Y...5TXRV/POWER TRIM & TILT ASSEMBLY 1/parts.html

I also have to tell you, this is the best Yamaha forum out there. Mainly because of Rodbolt and the other qualified techs that use this board.
I would have printed out this thread and taken it for your tech to read to help him out.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: 1993 Tilt Trim Seals

look folks.
its the internet.
I dont know if anything posted is true.
some of it,if it is, all I can say is_ dumbass.
the rest either learn how YOUR particular yamaha system works, out of about 10 different designs, or pay.
all there is to it.
most all Yamaha trim/tilt units have all replacable soft parts.
whether you or your tech has the correct liturature,training and factory support doesnt make it a Yamaha issue.
hydraulic systems are incredibly simply as there are simply NO variables.
it works as designed or its simply broke.
sometimes shafts pit, sometimes bores scuff, sometimes seals simply fail.
the tech,or do it yourselfer, should read the schematics and deterime how the system works or take it to someone who actually spends the cash to be trained how to.
so far, evey poster/highjacker that has posted on this thread ALL soft parts are avalible as are MOST hard parts.
no reason to cut and weld simply FIX the dang thing.

 

[ianyoung77]

Re: 1993 Tilt Trim Seals

Sorry to re-raise this topic but I have a 1990 50Hp 2 stroke and my tilt cylinder oil seal is gone. Like cousinabe and scarab 28 have found in some models the seal is not available. I can get the o-rings but not the oil seal which is the problem on my unit. It is outrageous that I need to buy new piston assembly which costs more than my motor is worth all because Yamaha do not sell the seal. The assembly on my motor is 697-4380E-01-00 and if anyone has the part number of the oil seal I would be very grateful

 

[jwbergeron]

Re: 1993 Tilt Trim Seals

I followed Rodbolt's instructions and had the tilt assembly apart in about 5 minutes...the end with the valves unscrews from the shaft. Put the eye at the top in a vice so you don't damage the shaft, take the retainer plate off the end that holds the springs at the valves. Take a couple springs out and use your spanner wrench in the holes that you removed the springs from and unscrew the end.

The problem I've found is that once the wiper goes, saltwater gets into the cylinder end screw and corrodes the seat for the o-rings. Yamaha does not sell the end screw for the tilt cylinder separately (although they sell the one's for the trim cylinders)...you have to buy the hole piston sub assembly for this part.

 

[ianyoung77]

Re: 1993 Tilt Trim Seals

Thanks jwbergeron,

My mechanic says the end screw is ok but it has a seal in it which needs replacing. Since he can't get it I'm up for the cost of a whole new rod

 

[rodbolt]

Re: 1993 Tilt Trim Seals

check the parts dimensionally with a later 3.1L 61a unit.
the 93 parts catalog says replace the entire cyl the 98 and up start giving individual parts.

 

[ianyoung77]

Re: 1993 Tilt Trim Seals

Thanks Rodbolt - always a great help.

I was already thinking along these lines and found a 697-43810-02-00 piston assembly which seems to be suited to my assembly. It's not as cheap as a seal but is less than half the price of the complete unit.

The 61A you suggest does not seem dimensionally similar based on other components but it's probably worth a couple of bucks to try! Certainly 93106-19N50-00 seems to be widely used but usually on much bigger motors