1975 9.9 charging conversion

ckgreenman

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The motor is a 1975 9.9 with electric start and am looking for a charging conversion for it. Does one exist? Is it possible to modify an existing kit to work on this motor?

Thanks
 

F_R

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Re: 1975 9.9 charging conversion

The motor is a 1975 9.9 with electric start and am looking for a charging conversion for it. Does one exist? Is it possible to modify an existing kit to work on this motor?

Thanks

If it has a factory installed electric start, OR if it has an electric start kit added on, it should already have battery charging. However, if somebody has added an electric starter (not the whole complete kit), it may not have the charger. If that is the case, it would be extremely expensive to add now.

The model number should help.

Models 10554 and 10555 are factory electric start and should have charging built in.

Models 10524 and 10525 are factory manual start. Somebody may have added a starter. If that is the case, remove the flywheel and see how many coils are in there. One coil, no charging, three coils, has charging. It takes more than just the added coils, if that is what you are thinking. A different flywheel for one thing.

Finally, are you sure you don't already have charging and it isn't working? Maybe the rectifier is blown. What causes you to ask the question in the first place?
 

ckgreenman

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Re: 1975 9.9 charging conversion

I read somewhere that the earlier (70s) 9.s didn't have charging. I haven't actually tested to see if it's even trying or not. I also don't have the model number handy right now but I can get that later this week. Where do I find the model number for the motor? How easy is it to remove the flywheel?
 

bktheking

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Re: 1975 9.9 charging conversion

I read somewhere that the earlier (70s) 9.s didn't have charging. I haven't actually tested to see if it's even trying or not. I also don't have the model number handy right now but I can get that later this week. Where do I find the model number for the motor? How easy is it to remove the flywheel?

The 74-76 Electric start 9.9's certainly did, wiring diagram shows a rectifier and 2 charge coils. Plate on the transom clamps there is a model plate stamped on it and a flywheel is pretty straight forward, you will need a puller to remove it. Without pulling the flywheel, look on the side of the motor for the terminal block, follow the yellow and yellow and blue wire to the rectifier.

I guess the question remains, is your motor electric start and is it not charging?
 

ckgreenman

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Re: 1975 9.9 charging conversion

The 74-76 Electric start 9.9's certainly did, wiring diagram shows a rectifier and 2 charge coils. Plate on the transom clamps there is a model plate stamped on it and a flywheel is pretty straight forward, you will need a puller to remove it. Without pulling the flywheel, look on the side of the motor for the terminal block, follow the yellow and yellow and blue wire to the rectifier.

I guess the question remains, is your motor electric start and is it not charging?

Ok I guess I was misled. It IS an electric start but whether it's original or converted I don't know. The start button is on the left side of the motor on the opposite side and roughly even with where the tiller attaches. I'll try to get to the boat this week and get the model number.

If it DOES have a charging circuit how do I go about testing it? I assume the charger would produce output on the same cables that connect to the battery.

Thanks.
 

F_R

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Re: 1975 9.9 charging conversion

Ok I guess I was misled. It IS an electric start but whether it's original or converted I don't know. The start button is on the left side of the motor on the opposite side and roughly even with where the tiller attaches. I'll try to get to the boat this week and get the model number.

If it DOES have a charging circuit how do I go about testing it? I assume the charger would produce output on the same cables that connect to the battery.

Thanks.

Use a voltmeter (multimeter) set on DC Volts range suitable for around 20 volts.

1: Check the voltage across the battery terminals
2: Start the motor and let it run awhile.
3: Recheck the voltage while still running. Should be higher than it was before you started it.

It takes awhile to build voltage so don't expect a big change right away. Since it is unregulated, if you run it a real long time on a fully charged battery, the voltage may go up to 15 or so. Normal
 

ckgreenman

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Re: 1975 9.9 charging conversion

OK well I don't have a battery on the boat but I took a voltmeter and fired it up. At idle it was producing about 20 volts and at high speed around 40+. I assume this means I have a charging system and it's working. With no load do those voltages sound right?

Use a voltmeter (multimeter) set on DC Volts range suitable for around 20 volts.

1: Check the voltage across the battery terminals
2: Start the motor and let it run awhile.
3: Recheck the voltage while still running. Should be higher than it was before you started it.

It takes awhile to build voltage so don't expect a big change right away. Since it is unregulated, if you run it a real long time on a fully charged battery, the voltage may go up to 15 or so. Normal
 

bktheking

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Re: 1975 9.9 charging conversion

OK well I don't have a battery on the boat but I took a voltmeter and fired it up. At idle it was producing about 20 volts and at high speed around 40+. I assume this means I have a charging system and it's working. With no load do those voltages sound right?

It's working as far as output but it would serve as a better test if a good battery were connected, I wouldn't run it too long without one connected of course, 40 Volts is almost triple what it would put out with a load.
 

ckgreenman

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Re: 1975 9.9 charging conversion

Do I need to worry about installing a regulator? I'm especially worried about electronics that might be on when the engine is running.

Also, what is the output of the charging system?

It's working as far as output but it would serve as a better test if a good battery were connected, I wouldn't run it too long without one connected of course, 40 Volts is almost triple what it would put out with a load.
 

F_R

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Re: 1975 9.9 charging conversion

I wouldn't worry about it, the charging system only puts out like 5 amps as compared to the much larger one's on the bigger motors, these don't put out a lot at trolling, that's half the issue with the system, it's small.


A good read:

http://www.sschapterpsa.com/ramblings/johnson_9.9_electricstarthtm.htm

Agreed, it appears to be working and overcharging is not a big issue with them. And I also agree that you should not run it without a battery. As you have discovered, running on open circuit causes the voltage to go way up. Rectifier diodes don't like high voltges. They can stand a certain design voltage, then poof.
 

the machinist

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Re: 1975 9.9 charging conversion

Thank you BK, for referring on to my recent article. This is one of the latest that I have added, not finished quite yet, but close.

LW
 

bktheking

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Re: 1975 9.9 charging conversion

Thank you BK, for referring on to my recent article. This is one of the latest that I have added, not finished quite yet, but close.

LW

Anytime Leeroy, your site is an awesome reference for 9.9 repair!
 

ckgreenman

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Re: 1975 9.9 charging conversion

Agreed, it appears to be working and overcharging is not a big issue with them. And I also agree that you should not run it without a battery. As you have discovered, running on open circuit causes the voltage to go way up. Rectifier diodes don't like high voltges. They can stand a certain design voltage, then poof.

Cool. thanks again for the info. I've hit that article numerous times now. A great resource :D. As for batteries, what would you recommend I use with it. I really don't have a whole lot of power requirements. I rarely go out at night and all my lights are either LED or wireless. Would a small garden vehicle/atv type battery be sufficient and able to be charged by the motor?




Sorry for not replying sooner but I've been a bit busy on the I/O side of the house.
 

bktheking

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Re: 1975 9.9 charging conversion

Deep cycle starting battery would be the way to go IMO.
 

ckgreenman

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Re: 1975 9.9 charging conversion

Agreed, it appears to be working and overcharging is not a big issue with them. And I also agree that you should not run it without a battery. As you have discovered, running on open circuit causes the voltage to go way up. Rectifier diodes don't like high voltges. They can stand a certain design voltage, then poof.

Deep cycle starting battery would be the way to go IMO.

You mean like a wal-mart marine special? (It's a cheap sailboat so I'm not putting AGMs in it :) ).
 

bktheking

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Re: 1975 9.9 charging conversion

Yes, any deep cycle, I mentioned starting cause they are smaller and because you have such a low current being delivered by that charging system. Deep cycle batteries can be charged by a lower current than regular batteries.
 

bktheking

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Re: 1975 9.9 charging conversion

And they do make a starting marine battery (it's a hybrid of both starting and deep cycle, I should have left the term "deep cycle" out of the suggestion), I have one in my boat as I don't need the added power of a true deep cycle and I have a much larger charging system then yours. A true deep cycle will cost much more and weigh much more but may work "better" due to the low amp output of a 9.9.

Read below:






Starting (sometimes called SLI, for starting, lighting, ignition) batteries are commonly used to start and run engines. Engine starters need a very large starting current for a very short time. Starting batteries have a large number of thin plates for maximum surface area. The plates are composed of a Lead "sponge", similar in appearance to a very fine foam sponge. This gives a very large surface area, but if deep cycled, this sponge will quickly be consumed and fall to the bottom of the cells. Automotive batteries will generally fail after 30-150 deep cycles if deep cycled, while they may last for thousands of cycles in normal starting use (2-5% discharge).

Deep cycle batteries are designed to be discharged down as much as 80% time after time, and have much thicker plates. The major difference between a true deep cycle battery and others is that the plates are SOLID Lead plates - not sponge. This gives less surface area, thus less "instant" power like starting batteries need. Although these an be cycled down to 20% charge, the best lifespan vs cost method is to keep the average cycle at about 50% discharge.

Unfortunately, it is often impossible to tell what you are really buying in some of the discount stores or places that specialize in automotive batteries. The golf car battery is quite popular for small systems and RV's. The problem is that "golf car" refers to a size of battery (commonly called GC-2, or T-105), not the type or construction - so the quality and construction of a golf car battery can vary considerably - ranging from the cheap off brand with thin plates up the true deep cycle brands, such as Crown, Deka, Trojan, etc. In general, you get what you pay for.

Marine batteries are usually a "hybrid", and fall between the starting and deep-cycle batteries, though a few (Rolls-Surrette and Concorde, for example) are true deep cycle. In the hybrid, the plates may be composed of Lead sponge, but it is coarser and heavier than that used in starting batteries. It is often hard to tell what you are getting in a "marine" battery, but most are a hybrid. Starting batteries are usually rated at "CCA", or cold cranking amps, or "MCA", Marine cranking amps - the same as "CA". Any battery with the capacity shown in CA or MCA may or may not be a true deep-cycle battery. It is sometimes hard to tell, as the term deep cycle is often overused. CA and MCA ratings are at 32 degrees F, while CCA is at zero degree F. Unfortunately, the only positive way to tell with some batteries is to buy one and cut it open - not much of an option.
 

ckgreenman

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Re: 1975 9.9 charging conversion

Exactly my thinking. They do have a hybrid which is probably what I'll end up getting. While I don't have a lot on board I'd prefer it be able to handle a larger drain and a starter battery typically affords.



And they do make a starting marine battery (it's a hybrid of both starting and deep cycle, I should have left the term "deep cycle" out of the suggestion), I have one in my boat as I don't need the added power of a true deep cycle and I have a much larger charging system then yours. A true deep cycle will cost much more and weigh much more but may work "better" due to the low amp output of a 9.9.
 

TN-25

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Re: 1975 9.9 charging conversion

If your 9.9 was originally a rope start it will be model 10R75 (or 10RL75 for long shaft). If it was electric start from the factory it will be model # 10E75 (10EL75 for long shaft).

If I'm not mistaken, those electric start 9.9 & 15 motors were supposed to be able to be run without a battery if you didn't want to lug it around. Just treat it as a manual start. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember that being a feature when those motors were introduced.
 
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