1972 65hp johnson motor no fire

1954born

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Hello guys. I did something STUPID today. I bought a running '72 65hp johnson. I mounted it on my project and got in a hurry and hookedup the battery wrong. I didn't notice right away because it turned over by the switch. Then I hooked up the fuel and turned on the water, then it wouldn't do anything by the switch. I jumped it from the solenoid switch and it would turn over fine but, no fire to the plugs. I'm not getting fire out of the switch. The switch/controls are an OMC, if that matters. What could be done or what could I have messedup???????????

Thanks in advance,
John T.
 
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jay_merrill

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Re: 1972 65hp johnson motor no fire

At a minimum, your probably fried your rectifier, but that wouldn't explain the lack of spark, because it is related to the charge system.

I have stuff that I have to do now, but I'll try to go through some things with you this evening.




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jay_merrill

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Re: 1972 65hp johnson motor no fire

Sorry to keep you waiting on an answer, but I ran out of bandwidth on my aircard and had to lay off the net for a couple of days. That said, I'll try to help now.

First, confirm that you are getting no spark at all. An easy way to do this, is with a spark checker. If you don't have one and are not sure what it is, just go to your local auto parts store and ask for one. They are inexpensive, at around 5 bucks or so. The spark checker is just a small tool with a tip that is inserted into your spark plug boot, just as your spark plug would be. There is a clip on the other end, for making a ground contact. In between those two contact is a screw type post, which allows you to vary the amount of gap for testing. On most of these testers, that post is actually part of the clip assembly. Set the tester at 1/2" for the '72 J/E 65hp. Test each "cylinder," one at a time.

If you have an inductive timing light, you can also use it on one spark plug wire at a time. The spark checker is better, though, because it will show you if you are getting a "fat" spark v. a weak one.

No Spark

If you are getting no spark on all three ignition circuits, the key switch may be your culprit. To test this, remove the black/yellow wire from terminal #6 on your power pack. It will be located at the bottom, left side of it. If you then get spark on all three ignition circuits, you have a bad key switch or the black yellow circuit has a short somewhere in it. Usually, its the switch though.

What I would do at this point, is to open the control box, disconnect the black/yellow circuit from the key switch and do a continuity check between the two ends. You will have to use a long piece of wire to extend the length of one of your multimeter leads, to do this. If you show no continuity, separate the yellow plug halves, at the powerhead. Once this is done, do continuity checks on the two sections of the black/yellow circuit. You will have to find the correct pin/socket in the plug halves to do this.

Assuming that your wiring is OK, which it most likely will be, the key switch should be the problem. I have to admit that the last time I had this happen, I just replaced the switch, without trying to test it. As I am writing this, I am thinking that you should be able to do that by doing a continuity test on it. If I screw the following statement up, bear with me, but you should be able to test between the "M" terminal (black/yellow lead) and the ground on the switch. With the key in the "off" position, you should have continuity and with it in the "on" position, there should be no continuity. Again, I am kind of winging it here, but my logic is that since the function of the black/yellow circuit is to ground the power pack and that is supposed to happen only when the key switch is in the off position, the test that I just outlined should work.

Spark on one or two of the three ignition Circuits

If you got spark on one or two of the three ignition circuits while doing the initial test with the black/yellow wire disconnected at the power pack, you probably have a bad power pack.


Try these procedures and let us know the result. Hopefully you will have your problem, but we'll keep going if that's not the issue. Once we get the ignition problem isolated, we should also check the charge system and in that regard, start with the rectifier.



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F_R

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Re: 1972 65hp johnson motor no fire

John T, your original question contains a clue---maybe. You say you are not getting fire out of the switch. If you are saying that it doesn't supply a voltage to the igniton system, that is correct--it shouldn't. The igniton system is self powered. The yellow / black wire grounds the system to STOP the motor.

If, in your uninformed messing and troubleshooting, you applied a voltage to the yellow / black wire, you blew the power pack. Expensive mistake.
 

mitchell6

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Mar 24, 2006
Messages
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Re: 1972 65hp johnson motor no fire

Check the fuse on the side of the motor, that's the cheapest thing that could have blown and would be the first place I look. Blowed my last year moter want to much of anything if that little fuse is blown
 

1954born

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Re: 1972 65hp johnson motor no fire

OK, guys. The day before yesterday I found, on another forum, a guy also hookedup his battery wrong. He was told to check the fuse before the solenoid switch. I had to dig it out of a wad of black tape. Well, it was blown. I put a new one in and now it will turn over by the switch. I used to check spark on car engines by putting a plug in the wire and grounding it to the block and either it would spark or not. I tried this to my outboard and didn't get a spark. I wondered if this test would be different on an outboard??? If it is different I'll buy a spark checker as recomended. I'll try the tests recomended by Jay tomorrow. I work weekend nights and I need to get to bed. I really appreciate all the responses I'm getting. With your help, I feel confident I'll be on the water soon!
Thanks again,
John Trevino
 

jay_merrill

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Re: 1972 65hp johnson motor no fire

Good suggestions and I'm a "big ole dummy" for forgetting to mention the fuse.

One thing that comes to mind, since your were able to replace the fuse very quickly and you mentioned it being buried in black tape - is it the correct fuse? The original fuse is a 20 amp, quick burning fuse. It is very short (about 1/3 - 1/2 the length of a standard, glass fuse) and is located in a black fuse holder. When folks mention lots of tape on something that should require no tape at all, I usually start thinking in terms of nonstandard replacement parts.

If what you have on the motor is not the OEM part, at a minimum, make sure whatever fuse you are using is a 20 amp, fast burning fuse. If you want to go back to the original setup, the fuse part number is 510884 and the cost is $1.22. The fuse holder is part of the short wiring harness/plug that is located on the starboard side of the powerhead. I don't see a separate part number for it, but your local OMC/BRP dealer may be able to help with that.



???
 

Bluesmobile

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Sep 13, 2009
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Re: 1972 65hp johnson motor no fire

Sounds like a problem I had last year. I have a '71 evinrude 40hp.

Check your controls and make sure its in neutral. I hear its some sort of safety to prevent the motor from starting in gear (I have it on mine).

Pull the spark plug, put the plug in the boot and hold to engine surface and pull on cord (have someone else pull cord(it helps)) and check for spark. Remember to touch only the boot and nothing else. Not even the motor, otherwise you will get a jolt (trust me on this one).

Get a gear puller and check your coils. Heres two pictures of my coils:
HPIM0969.jpg

Above is what they are supposed to look like.
Below is what a blown coil looks like:
HPIM0977.jpg


Correct me if im wrong, but if you hooked up the battery wrong, it may have blown a coil resulting in no spark.

Btw, the keyswitch thing is right: the switch grounds out the motor to stop it which is why you get continuity when off and no continuity when on.

Hope this helps alittle bit.
 

F_R

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Re: 1972 65hp johnson motor no fire

Concerning spark checking: OK, the plug against the head check will tell if there is ANY spark at all. It won't tell if there is enough of a spark. In this case, it seems that there is none at all, if I am reading it correctly. That system should be capable of throwing a 7/16" spark with ease.

Now, if you are going to hold the wire in your hand, can I watch? A 7/16" spark voltage will knock you right out of your BVD's.
 

Bluesmobile

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Re: 1972 65hp johnson motor no fire

Concerning spark checking: OK, the plug against the head check will tell if there is ANY spark at all. It won't tell if there is enough of a spark. In this case, it seems that there is none at all, if I am reading it correctly. That system should be capable of throwing a 7/16" spark with ease.

Now, if you are going to hold the wire in your hand, can I watch? A 7/16" spark voltage will knock you right out of your BVD's.

At the time, my motor had lawn mower tractor plugs in it (wrong plugs) and i didnt even know it. Yes it hurt like hell because i had my hand on the housing and the other grabbing the entire spark plug holding it to the engine and little brother thought that it was gonna be really hard to pull the cord (with spark plugs out) and gave it a big pull resulting in several shocks before i could let go.
As someone else has said "you live and learn"
 

jay_merrill

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Re: 1972 65hp johnson motor no fire

Bluesmobile - please reduce your photo sizes to no more than 640 pixels on the longest dimension. Overly large photos cause readers to have to scroll R&L to read text entries. They also use added server space and increase bandwidth use.

Thanks.



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jay_merrill

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Re: 1972 65hp johnson motor no fire

John - one other thought that comes to mind. Any time you send voltage to the wrong places or end up with a short, you can have wires that overheat. If this is severe, sometimes the rubber insulation on the wiring gets soft and can even melt-through. It might be a good idea to look the wiring on your motor over.

The circuits inside of the main cable will be hard to see, because of the sheath, but you can look for signs elsewhere. One good indicator of this happening, is insulation that feels loose or "rubbery," meaning that it doesn't feel closely adhered to the wire inside and moves independantly of the internal wire. If you find this, you may or may not have to do some rewiring, it just depends on the severity.

The good news, however, is that your fuse probably saved you from this problem, by blowing.



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Bluesmobile

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Re: 1972 65hp johnson motor no fire

Bluesmobile - please reduce your photo sizes to no more than 640 pixels on the longest dimension. Overly large photos cause readers to have to scroll R&L to read text entries. They also use added server space and increase bandwidth use.

Thanks.
???

Sorry bout that, still getting used to photobucket. Fixing them now.
 

1954born

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Re: 1972 65hp johnson motor no fire

Ok Jay. I just did the tests you recommended. I disconnected the #6 black/yellow wire from the power pack and got spark on all 3 plugs. Then I opened up the control box and did the test on the switch, and mind you I'm SIMPLE minded on wiring, the black wire is the ground, right? Anyway, I got continuity with both the switch on and off, touching one side to the black/yellow and the other to the black. Again, OK, what do I need to do?
Thanks,
John
 

F_R

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Re: 1972 65hp johnson motor no fire

Ok Jay. I just did the tests you recommended. I disconnected the #6 black/yellow wire from the power pack and got spark on all 3 plugs. Then I opened up the control box and did the test on the switch, and mind you I'm SIMPLE minded on wiring, the black wire is the ground, right? Anyway, I got continuity with both the switch on and off, touching one side to the black/yellow and the other to the black. Again, OK, what do I need to do?
Thanks,
John

Disconnect the black/yellow wire from the switch. Then check continuity of the SWITCH with the wire disconnected. There should be no continuity between the black and black/yellow terminals with the switch turned to anything other than "off". If there is, replace the switch. But if the switch passes the continuity test, find and fix the short in the yellow/black wire-to-ground.
 

1954born

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Re: 1972 65hp johnson motor no fire

Well, I don't know what I did, but, I think I got it! I did what FR said to do and I really couldn't find a break in the ground. Then I removed all the black tape around the wires, connected the #6 wire back to power pack and I tried by the switch, I got fire to the plugs. I rewrapped the wires and tried it again, still have fire to the plugs. Now I have to get a tank and hose and see if it will run. I really appreciate all the time you guys took to help with advice. I'm hooked on the site. I'll let you know for sure.
Thanks,
John Trevino
 

1954born

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Re: 1972 65hp johnson motor no fire

Oh well, dadgummit! I ain't got it! I must've been asleep. When I remove the black/yellow from the #6 on the powerpack, the motor runs. I did the ignition switch test and it tested good. I traced the black/yellow and checked the continuity and it checks out fine. I looked on the wiring diagram and checked another thread and found a kill (lanyard) switch. Is it possible the this switch is bad?
Thahks again,
John Trevino
 

bktheking

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Re: 1972 65hp johnson motor no fire

Does your boat have a lanyard switch? If not then it sounds like the ignition switch may be the issue.
 

1954born

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Re: 1972 65hp johnson motor no fire

I've been looking at that. On the switch I noticed where the black/yellow wire attach, there is another black/yellow wire there which goes to a little spring loaded switch which protrudes out of the control box. 2 wires, the black/yellow and a black to ground. Not sure what that is. If I have a lanyard, I don't know where it is unless that is the switch I've discribed?
 

bktheking

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Re: 1972 65hp johnson motor no fire

That's the lanyard and if the clip isn't on the lanyard pushing that contact in then it's doing its job. You need the clip on to make it run.
 
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