Plumbing and services at private dock

[Kevlar7R]

I have a private dock on a navigable waterway, and I am looking to set it up to be fully self sufficient. I haven't found much info in searches, so, I thought I'd start a thread. 30amp shore power and water are pretty obvious and easy. I'd also like to fuel and pump out my boat at my own dock. For reference my dock is about 50' from shore to the end, and the land level sits about 18' above mean tide level. For fuel, this is great; I can use the 18' of head to pump the fuel. My tenative plan is to get an old home heating oil tank, and place it at the top of the hill, and plumb down to a filler valve at the dock. What to plumb with is the question. My current idea is pex tubing and sharkbite fittings. Thoughts? Had any one run fuel through pex? Initial research seems to show that it shouldn't react. I don't need to pump fast, so 1/2" tubing should be fine. I can use a basic brass ball valve at the bottom, since I have a whistler on my vent, I don't need an auto shut off valve. Waste... Now that's an issue. I need to get it off the boat, and move it about 150' with 18' of head to get it to my septic tank. The last 75' or so are down hill, so not a problem there. I could get the waste out of the boat with an on-board mascerator, but what then? Commercial pump out pumps are prohibitively expensive. I'm open to ideas here. Let's hear your thoughts!

 

[GA_Boater]

I know these are questions about the mechanics of installing fuel, water and sewer pump out on your dock. But do you require permitting since it's on a navigable waterway? It would be a shame get it all set and and then be shutdown.

 

[midcarolina]

First thing I would do is check my local codes....... you could really step in it if you don't follow the code. I would actually be very suprised if they will even allow you to install a permanent fuel tank...... if they do there are some really strict guidelines.....

in my way of thinking I would make both systems portable....... that's the only way to avoid stepping in deep dodo..... with say the EPA

 

[Kevlar7R]

That's an interesting thought. I'll look in to it. I don't think the permancy of it would be an issue. My dad suggested getting a 50 gallon commercial stainless steel shop vac, and just lugging it up the stairs after sucking the stuff out. I don't think I like that idea... 1. I'm not fond of carrying tanks of poo. 2. 2 flights of stairs is a long way to carry 50 gallons. 3. Getting it back out of the vac and into the septic. 4. Imagine tripping on the stairs. 5. Doesn't give me a lot of cushion for flush water in addition to the waste. But permitting/legality is a very valid point. That aside, lets talk about how to do it.

 

[H20Rat]

That's an interesting thought. I'll look in to it. I don't think the permancy of it would be an issue. My dad suggested getting a 50 gallon commercial stainless steel shop vac, and just lugging it up the stairs after sucking the stuff out. I don't think I like that idea... 1. I'm not fond of carrying tanks of poo. 2. 2 flights of stairs is a long way to carry 50 gallons. 3. Getting it back out of the vac and into the septic. 4. Imagine tripping on the stairs. 5. Doesn't give me a lot of cushion for flush water in addition to the waste. But permitting/legality is a very valid point. That aside, lets talk about how to do it.

That is such a bad idea on so many levels! First of all, don't underestimate the weight... Figure 5 or 6 pounds per gallon. Even a half full shop vac is going to be over 200 pounds when 'loaded'...

Anyway, no experience in the poo handling, but.. on the fuel side, it would be MUCH easier from a permitting/legality/insurance perspective not to have a line running anywhere close to the water. Install a permanent tank on dry land, with an electric pump on it. You can get a bulk tank relatively cheap. And then, just get yourself one of those rolling dock fuel caddies. At no point do you have to deal with any regulations/permits of having a fuel dock.

 

[midcarolina]

For the waste removal I would be looking at RV forums, I think those guy's build their own macerator pump systems yhat discharge through a garden hose.

On the fuel what smokingcrater say's is right....only thing I would check is if there is a maximum gallon storage before you have to have a spill/rupture tub to contain any possible leaks.......

 

[NYBo]

You will be entering a quagmire of local, state, and federal laws, regulations, and permits and might never be approved. I can't imagine your idea for the fuel line would be even remotely legal.

 

[tomdinwv]

A macerator and a portable poo tank could work. Taking the tank up stairs would be a pain though. Check out Thetford (sp?) tanks. I never needed/used a macerator but I do have one of the portable tanks. Used it to dump the tanks on my camper. Works great. They make a fitting you can add to a cleanout going to your septic tank. That would allow you to lock the drain hose on the tank to your cleanout and prevent spillage in the yard.

 

[haulnazz15]

Regarding the pump out/macerator . . . how often are you doing this to where it needs to be done at your own dock? I think I'd just drop by the local marine with pump out service and have them do it. Much cleaner and probably much cheaper (versus installing the equipment to pump it up 18') unless you are using the facilities constantly.

I seriously doubt you'll be able to get permitting for a private fuel tank next to a public waterway, especially not one made from an old fuel oil tank. I would imagine there would have to be several fail-safes involved in that ordeal if you could even get the EPA permits. If this were a rural area/farm, you would likely have no problems. The fuel caddy is probably the best bet, or at a minimum some type of mobile fuel tank (maybe on a trailer) with a fuel hose reel. You could just walk it down to the boat dock each time and avoid the permitting stuff.

 

[H20Rat]

I seriously doubt you'll be able to get permitting for a private fuel tank next to a public waterway, especially not one made from an old fuel oil tank. I would imagine there would have to be several fail-safes involved in that ordeal if you could even get the EPA permits. If this were a rural area/farm, you would likely have no problems. The fuel caddy is probably the best bet, or at a minimum some type of mobile fuel tank (maybe on a trailer) with a fuel hose reel. You could just walk it down to the boat dock each time and avoid the permitting stuff.

You would be surprised... There is no such thing as an EPA permit to start with, so no need to worry about getting one. There are local/state permits the OP may need, and some of those programs are run under EPA guidelines, but no EPA permit. And as long as the tank is above ground, it is fairly easy and pain free in most places. None of the permit requirements I've seen make any mention of distance to water either, as long as the tank is done safely. (honestly a spill in water is actually BETTER than an above ground spill. The waterway will eventually dillute the spill, but once you contaminate ground water, its done, there is no going back.)


That said, like i mentioned, just don't run the hose anywhere close to the water. That WILL require the attention of a couple federal agencies.

 

[midcarolina]

Here is a little info on storage tanks..... it seems if the tank is less than 55 gallons it may be considered portable..........https://www.fedcenter.gov/assistance/facilitytour/tanks/aboveground/

 

[Kevlar7R]

That's interesting info Midcarolina, however I think the CFR's only apply to federal facilities. Based on that article, no home oil tank I've ever seen would meet those regulations.

 

[Thalasso]

I think if the gas tank is permanent your going to need to comply with local fire codes and being near the water there are going to be EPA requirements to comply with.
If your using gas i don't think you are going to be able to use a old home heating oil tank

 

[midcarolina]

My point in linking to that page was to give you some info of what fed regs are....... and anyone who wanted to, could really stir the pot for you and make one big headache..........I think it would be much easier to use something considered portable......If you need more capacity than a standard portable fuel tank look at summit racing for fuel cells. Some are very expensive, but some are very reasonable.they are many in the +30 gallon.

 

[Kevlar7R]

Since originally posting this thread, I've upgraded to a Maxum 3000 SCR. I solved the fuel issue, I have an old trailer with tanks mounted on it, and 200' of line, which I haul down the dock and back up. They city marina has a free pump out, so I've given up on pumping waste at home.

 

[MH Hawker]

You will have to use a standard double sided tank for fuel over 55 gallons and it will need a spill wall all around it including 55 gallon drums.