De-icer D-Icer repair

[The Icer]

I have a problem with my Pyramid (Taylor Made) D-Icer. It only hums and won`t start, but if i give the propeller a spin, it rotate and goes fine. The shaft IS a little bit hard to turn. I have cleaned the centrifugal switch and changed oil at the sealant "room" near where the shaft (and propel) stick out.

I have changed the capacitor. With a voltmeter there is almost no voltage coming to the capacitor, so I starting to think that the problem could be the start winding? I am afraid of take it more apart, since I am able to use it with the start problem; I could just let it go continuous, but it would be nice to get it fixed. The main fright i have of taking it more apart is that I don't know how to keep the brushes apart when I install the rotor back again.

The wiring IS a little black, but I got it to start just ONE time after I changed the capacitor, so I hope it can be the brushes. I don't think it is the bearing, but maybe.
There is also an umbaco 7 mm screw that is impossible to get out, but if anybody have any idea, I`ll go for it

Anyone have done this before or have any advice, it would be appreciated

Pyramid D-Icer #41760

115V - Not shure HP but 1/2 -3/4

 

[UncleWillie]

You cleaned the switch but is it actually making contact?

The switch adds the Capacitor to the windings to start the motor turning.
Once the motor get going, the switch opens to isolate the Cap.
If the switch isn't closed Electrically, the motor will only hum and not start.
Spinning by hand may get it started but it may burn up if the power ever glitches and the motor stops.

If there is ANY measurable voltage across the switch before it opens, The switch is not closing.

Getting brushes back in place is not as hard as it may appear. You will NOT need 4 hands.

 

[The Icer]

Hi UncleWillie and thanks for your reply

Actually, From the winding to the capacitor, there is only a little amount of voltage meassureable during start up. I don't know how to measure the switch you talking about (Is there an internal power switch?) I only plug it to the wall and it starts humming. The centrifugal switch (on the picture) however is opening (or closing?) when the engine has startet, and I can hear it closing (or opening?) as the rpm goes down after I disconnect power. But I don't think its opening (or closing) th momnt I connect power. Should it be?

The motor goes flawlessly, it appear, after some start help, but as I say, it IS a little hard to turn when the power is off.
Better pictures here:
http://trygenergi.com/wp-content/upl...150115_003.jpg
http://trygenergi.com/wp-content/upl...150115_002.jpg
http://trygenergi.com/wp-content/upl...150102_015.jpg
http://trygenergi.com/wp-content/upl...150102_009.jpg
Picture of the 7mm impossible screw: http://trygenergi.com/wp-content/upl...50102_008a.jpg

All pictures are available here: http://trygenergi.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/

 

[The Icer]

Does anyone know what lies behind that umbraco screw on the picture It sit so tight, that I needed to go up in size on tool :mad-new:

I have tried to start it and give it help, then disconnect power, and as it slows down, I reconnect power again - it keeps spinning, so It seems that it can handle a power glitch. Don't know if it helps diagnose it though...

 

[UncleWillie]

The (Centrifugal) Inertial switch should be Closed/Shorted when the motor is stopped.
A meter reading across this switch should show a short, Zero Ohms.
Anything greater than 2 ohms on the meter indicates a problem.

Start Winding test....
Place one meter lead on the side of the switch that leads to the Start Winding,
And the other meter lead to the AC power wire that gives the lowest Ohm reading,
This should measure the Start Winding Resistance.
Without knowing anything about this particular motor, a few 10's to the low 100's of ohms might be normal. (10-250)
More than 1000 ohms is likely indicative of a problem.
If it was shorted, you would already have witnessed the ensuing fire, and would now measure an open.

 

[The Icer]

This motor is kinda upside-downish. Maybe this picture explain more than my words :lol:
http://trygenergi.com/wp-content/upl...1/DicerExp.jpg
I have just written and used arrows to explain etc...

 

[UncleWillie]

Viewed the picture.

The key to getting the motor to start lies with the Capacitor, the Start switch, and the Start Windings.

As long as the Capacitor is out of the circuit... With the motor on the bench...

You should measure continuity from one of the Cap leads to one of the AC Power wires. (<10 to <1000 ohms)
You should also measure continuity from the other Cap leads to the other AC Power wire.
If both Cap leads do not connect to AC Power, The Start Switch would be the first suspect.

 

[UncleWillie]

Does anyone know what lies behind that umbraco screw on the picture It sit so tight, that I needed to go up in size on tool :mad-new:
I have tried to start it and give it help, then disconnect power, and as it slows down, I reconnect power again - it keeps spinning, so It seems that it can handle a power glitch. Don't know if it helps diagnose it though...

It actually means little. The problem is not with it running, the problem is getting it started.

Try unplugging it for more than one second with the prop submerged and pushing real water and I'll wager it comes to a full stop.
You can not rely on luck to keep a motor running at the bottom of a lake for months at a time.
If it stopped you would likely not notice it for many hours at best. More likely a week or more.

 

[The Icer]

UncleWillie, you are the best ;-)

Now, here in Norway It is half past 12 (in the night 00:40) her, so I`ll must ohm it tomorrow.

 

[The Icer]

It actually means little. The problem is not with it running, the problem is getting it started.

Try unplugging it for more than one second with the prop submerged and pushing real water and I'll wager it comes to a full stop.
You can not rely on luck to keep a motor running at the bottom of a lake for months at a time.
If it stopped you would likely not notice it for many hours at best. More likely a week or more.

UncleWillie, I am very gratefull for your time and effort to help :tea:

It is not possible to let it run under water for now. If I can or can not figure out this problem now, then I`ll try later (Need to get it waterproof again, screws etc)
I have measured the wiring as follows:
Removed the capacitor and found ohm 4,2 on the cables in on the wiring (start wiring?) Strangely enough, I found it to be much higher and gradually came down to 4,1, but this happened only one time

It is easier to show pictures on how I measured, so feel free to look at:
http://trygenergi.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/WP_20150118_006-e1421611934267.jpg
(This was the one that stabilized on 4,2 - 4,1 after it started much higher)
http://trygenergi.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/WP_20150118_010.jpg
http://trygenergi.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/WP_20150118_008.jpg
http://trygenergi.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/WP_20150118_007.jpg

 

[UncleWillie]

Your measurements indicate that it should work if reassembled.
Be sure the switch operates freely, and the weights on the shaft allow the sleeve to move up and down when the motor comes up to speed.

I was not expecting you to run it in the water.
My point was, that running it on the bench without a water load on the motor, and unplugging it for a half second,
is not a realistic test of what would happen if the power were to go out for a few minutes at the bottom of the fjord.

 

[The Icer]

Your measurements indicate that it should work if reassembled.
Be sure the switch operates freely, and the weights on the shaft allow the sleeve to move up and down when the motor comes up to speed.

I was not expecting you to run it in the water.
My point was, that running it on the bench without a water load on the motor, and unplugging it for a half second,
is not a realistic test of what would happen if the power were to go out for a few minutes at the bottom of the fjord.

Ok, how freely should it be able to go up and down? I need to use a little force to press the switch down. I have cleansed it and gave it a little bit of oil (not on the plastic part). I also gave the connection a little rub with a jewelers "sandpapier" (norwegian word for it, don't remember the English)
Maybe the springs are too tensioned?

When the motor is running, I can hear the switch goes up when I disconnect power and the RPM/speed comes down.

 

[The Icer]

UncleWillie, you have saved the day/week/month by pouring out of knowledge and I am happy/thrilled/ecstatic to tell you that my Nicer De-Icer now starts and run like a charm!

I used a little force to bend the contact surface on the centrifugal switch to get a better connection and filed it a little with a jewelers "thing" (you know ). Now why did I not check the continuous between the poles on that? You have told me, but in my eager to take it all apart/fright of taking it apart, I just did not DO it :facepalm:

Anyhow, I am ever thankful for your patience with those in need of help and is a little "stressy" :joyous:

Can`t wait `till the ice gets thick in Kristiansand :happy:

 

[UncleWillie]

Glad it worked out for you.
Lets hope it keeps working once it is back in the water.

Lykke til! , Bill