What Glue to Use??

[Woodonglass]

Anyone who's been on the forum for any length of time KNOW's there's been a lot of debate about what glue to use for boat restoration. Epoxy, Polyester Resin and Glass, Titebond III, Gorilla Glue, PL Construction Adhesive, the list goes on.... Everyone seems to have their opinion and favorite. There are pro's and con's to each. I've been "Googlin" and found this...http://woodgears.ca/joint_strength/glue.html I found it to be interesting and I hope you do to. This guy is quite an inventive woodworker and has MADE some of the most inventive woodworking Jigs and Machines that I have ever seen. His MIND is amazing!!! The tests he's conducted with the glue are pretty well done so take a look and draw your own conclusions. I offer this only for that.

Here's another one...http://www.tonygrove.com/articles/boat-repair-adhesives.php

 

[gm280]

I read the entire post. Some good reading for sure. But as he summed up, there are a lot of good glues out there and it really depends on what your going to glue to determine want type of glue to use. If the glues are fresh, and can be used for your project, go for it. Obviously using wood, it gets really hard to absolutely duplicate the exact same conditions from one test to the next. Averages are the best one can do... I will say that I've use wood glues for literally years and I have never ever had any glue joint fail on me yet...

 

[Woodonglass]

gm280, you're spot on. It all boils down to that. We all have to make our own decisions based on what we feel will work best for us. Experience, Research, and all the rest helps but in the end we all just have to go with our "Gut" and do what seems best for our given situation. Compared to what we have to day...We went to the MOON in a Tin Can powered with Gun Powder!!!! And it worked and everybody got home SAFELY!!!!

 

[jigngrub]

For laminating the 2 pieces together when building a transom core I think you should ask yourself WWSD (what would Spock do) and the logical answer would be to use the same adhesive that you're going to use to bond the transom core to the hull and more than likely that's going to be a PB of poly or epoxy resin. You're going to have all of the ingredients to make it with and more than likely you bought them in bulk so they'll be cheaper and the PB will likely cost less than a different commercially available ready-made adhesive and you don't have to go out and buy something else. If PB is going to good enough to bond your transom and stringers to the hull, why wouldn't it good enough to build your transom core with? I'm pretty surprised more long-time members here haven't realized this.

 

[Woodonglass]

Different applications require different adhesives. That's why mfgs. make em. There is NO adhesive that's Best for ALL applications. That's a Proven Fact from EXPERIENCED Boat Builders!!!

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/wooden-boat-building-restoration/titebond-iii-testing-27019.html

 

[gm280]

I think if you really see what fails in all these boat projects, not one failed due to glue joint failures but always the wood turns to mush. I have never ever seen any of these boat projects that stated their transoms glue joints gave way or the stringers had the glue break down. It is always the wood rot and water is the culprit in ever case... So keep it dry, and it will last forever...which just happens to be the exact same problems with house too. Water intrusion creates so many problems in so many things we use. Rust in cars and rot in everything else. So the debate about glues is the least of anybody's worries it seems... JMHO!

 

[nurseman]

Good information in those articles, thanks Wood!

 

[Woodonglass]

I think if you really see what fails in all these boat projects, not one failed due to glue joint failures but always the wood turns to mush. I have never ever seen any of these boat projects that stated their transoms glue joints gave way or the stringers had the glue break down. It is always the wood rot and water is the culprit in ever case... So keep it dry, and it will last forever...which just happens to be the exact same problems with house too. Water intrusion creates so many problems in so many things we use. Rust in cars and rot in everything else. So the debate about glues is the least of anybody's worries it seems... JMHO!

 

[jigngrub]

I think if you really see what fails in all these boat projects, not one failed due to glue joint failures but always the wood turns to mush

And that could be attributed to the type of glue the manufacturers use. I don't know for certain, but I'm pretty sure the OEM adhesive for transom core construction is resorcinol glue. Resorcinol is an industrial strength and waterproof glue used in boat building and many other areas of manufacturing. It is readily available in the industrial/commercial market, but hard to find in the retail market and that's why we don't see it used here much. I Googled it and ran across these interesting discussions:

https://www.google.com/search?sourc...p..4.0l5.0.0.1.604505...........0.n7uYs-n95_0

Why would a boat manufacturer use one adhesive to bond the transom core together and another to bond the transom to the hull? The answer is simple, cost! They buy the resorcinol in bulk and it's relatively cheap for them. They also use resorcinol for other applications in boat building, one of which is to glue the carpet down in a boat. That's right, they use carpet glue to bond a transom core together... or is it, they use transom adhesive to glue carpet down with?

I still say using the same adhesive to bond your transom core to the hull and your core pieces together is a good choice. The applications are nearly identical and shouldn't warrant the use of different adhesives. I think a good question to ask yourself when choosing an adhesive for building a transom core is "Would I use this material to bond my core to the hull?" If the answer is no, there are better choices available.

 

[gm280]

Bottom line is if there was ONE perfect glue in the world, there would be no need for so many others. What one person deemed the best, is not what somebody else thinks so. Again like comparing the best car, or best 2-cycle oil, or the best wheel bearing grease. We all have a re "best" to us produces. But rarely has any of the best produces ever failed to the point to ruined any project effort...at least to my knowledge... And we all can support our "best" with facts every time... Isn't this world amazing? :decision:

 

[Woodonglass]

Based on additional post's here's some more GLUE info... Resorcinol Glue Facts

Resorcinol has been around for a long time in boat building but...for the average boat builder, as stated in most of the articles you'll read, is really not suitable. It's just to darn hard to work with. In certain applications it can't be beat...period. But again, very finicky glue and requires very close tolerances in the joints and long clamping times and specific temps. When mixed with other chemicals to make other glue formulations it creates some awesome glues. While it is true that some form of resorcinol glue is used to make marine carpet glue it's not the exact same glue that's used to make the plywood you use to make your transom.

Gunna try to find some general Facts and Specs on Marine Carpet Glue both Water based and Solvent based. That's been a Hot Topic of Discussion on the forum at times too. Both for Installation AND how to get it off!!! Maybe this thread will turn into a place where NEWB's can come to get info on all the types of adhesives and make their minds up on what they want to use based on the experiences of the forum members. Hopefully more members will chime in with what they've used, why they used it and what their results have been. Speculation is one thing, but there is no substitute for good ole' actual experience. Of course that's just my opinion.

 

[Woodonglass]

This was a good discussion right here on iBoats

Best Glue for Boat Carpet

 

[kcassells]

For laminating the 2 pieces together when building a transom core I think you should ask yourself WWSD (what would Spock do) and the logical answer would be to use the same adhesive that you're going to use to bond the transom core to the hull and more than likely that's going to be a PB of poly or epoxy resin. You're going to have all of the ingredients to make it with and more than likely you bought them in bulk so they'll be cheaper and the PB will likely cost less than a different commercially available ready-made adhesive and you don't have to go out and buy something else. If PB is going to good enough to bond your transom and stringers to the hull, why wouldn't it good enough to build your transom core with? I'm pretty surprised more long-time members here haven't realized this.

This may require a Vulcan Mind Meld to get to the bottom of this topic. What kind of waters are on Vulcan?

 

[jigngrub]

This may require a Vulcan Mind Meld to get to the bottom of this topic. What kind of waters are on Vulcan?

The waters of logic!

 

[kcassells]

Yes, it would have to be that. Indeed Captain Kirk.

 

[sphelps]

Would be nice to see a stress test epoxy vs poly ..
Btw , Just use seacast and ya wont need to glue any wood together .. :bolt::behindsofa:

 

[jigngrub]

Would be nice to see a stress test epoxy vs poly ..
Btw , Just use seacast and ya wont need to glue any wood together .. :bolt::behindsofa:

... and you won't have to worry about rot either, eh phelps?!

 

[gm280]

... and you won't have to worry about rot either, eh phelps?!

I have had both types of boats over the years myself, being glass and aluminum types. While both have their place, I can make a mistake in glass and repair it without much issue. But cut aluminum short or wrong and find another piece to replace it...

 

[jigngrub]

I have had both types of boats over the years myself, being glass and aluminum types. While both have their place, I can make a mistake in glass and repair it without much issue. But cut aluminum short or wrong and find another piece to replace it...

I wasn't speaking fiberglass or aluminum, I was talking about Sphelps poured Seacast transomlane:. It's an epoxy mixture that's used instead of a wood core transom and it will never rot.

 

[sphelps]

Yep but it's poly based not epoxy ...
I think looking at all the test on the glue . I may use the TB III to make the longer stringers for the Glassmaster ...
But he never did the test using poly resin ...